From: lamontg@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: RUN FOR YOUR LIVES ITS STRYCHNINE!
Date: 8 Apr 1993 04:59:04 GMT
Message-ID: <1q0beoINNqve@shelley.u.washington.edu>

On the issue of strychnine in LSD:

      The following text was written by Alexander T. Shulgin in response
      to the overwhelming misconception that strychnine is commonly 
      found in street samples of LSD:

           "The observation of strychnine as being present in any street 
      drug, as a by-product, or a contaminant, or an impurity has 
      never been documented.  It is a natural plant product, as are 
      the ergots which are used in the synthesis of LSD.  But they 
      come from totally unrelated plants;  there has never been a 
      report of strychnine and an ergot alkaloid co-existing in a 
      single species.  So if the two materials are together in a drug 
      sample, it could only be by the hand of man.  I have personally 
      looked a large number of illicit street offerings and have never 
      detected the presence of strychnine.  The few times that I have 
      indeed found it present, have been in legal exhibits where it 
      usually occurred in admixture with brucine (also from the plant 
      Strychnos nux-vomica) in criminal cases involving attempted or 
      successful poisoning.  
           The same argument applies to the myth that occasionally surfaces, 
      that strychnine occurs in the white tufts of peyote.  This is 
      equally fraudulent -- it has never been reported in that cactus 
      or any other cactus."

           Furthermore, it should probably be spelled out that strychnine
      is not needed to bond LSD to blotter paper, nor is strychnine a
      breakdown product of LSD.  these are probably the two most commonly
      repeated gross misconceptions.
           The source of the "strychnine is commonly found in LSD" myth may
      be somewhat grounded in truth.  For example, in "LSD: My Problem Child"
      Albert Hoffman cites a case in the late sixties of Strychnine being
      found in an "LSD" sample that was a white powder.  However, what is
      commonly claimed is that strychnine is found in a significant percentage
      of LSD, specifically blotter LSD, which is *not* true.  Shulgin's note
      that he has analyzed many samples of LSD and never found strychnine
      is backed up by published analyses done by PharmChem and the LA
      County Street Drug Analysis program, which likewise never found
      any strychnine.   
           This is intuitively backed up by the fact that a 5mm x
      5mm "standard" square of blotter LSD only weights about 2mg and if
      the paper itself was made completely out of pure strychnine it is
      still on the very low end of Strychnine's threshold of activity.  
           Strychnine is not the cause of tracers, cramps, nausea, or
      amphetamine-like LSD-effects.  Its possible that poorly synthesized
      LSD might have other ergot derivatives in it, which might contribute
      to the harsh body load that some get on taking LSD.  Also, the
      very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and 1-Acetyl-LSD (which break
      down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be present in some street
      samples and might contribute to the harsh body load.  (Petter Stafford
      has claimed in his _Psychedelics Encyclopedia_ that 1-Acetyl-LSD is 
      supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced acid" may
      acutally be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or some
      substitute).  And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are
      breakdown products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on
      some trips, particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect.  Given
      this plethora of possible chemicals in street "LSD", its not needed to
      look to a chemical which has hardly ever been found in analyzed
      samples to explain variations in the strength and "cleanliness" of
      street acid.
           Its also possible that LSD itself simply causes adverse physical
      effects, particularly muscle cramping, in persons suceptible to it.
      The reported side effects of LSD (the nausea and apparent CNS
      stimulant effects) are commonly reported side effects of seritonergic
      drugs such as fluoxetine (Prozac) and buspirone (Buspar), and also
      are commonly reported (and typically more severe) with other
      psychedelics like Mescaline.
           Or its quite likely that the "strychnine" reactions to LSD are
      entirely psychosomatic.  Both Leary ("The Psychedelic Experience") and
      Lilly ("Programming and Metaprogramming...", "Center of the Cyclone")
      have each observed this reaction in people who cannot handle the
      surge of emotion associated with a trip. 
           Further advice would be to avoid methylxanthines (caffiene,
      theophylline in tea, etc) prior to dosing.  Some have noted a possible 
      synergistic effect between them and LSD causing, or contributing, to
      a harsh body load during a trip.  And prior use of dramamine may
      alleviate the nausea sometimes associated with LSD, and other
      psychedelic drugs (although it may also effect the quality of the
      trip -- Shulgin has noted in PiHKAL that he shuns the use of
      anti-nauseants in order to experience the effects of the psychedelic,
      both good and bad, with no possible interference).
           In summary, it can't be said that we know specifically why
      sometimes acid feels "cleaner" than other times.  However, based on
      the availability of plausible explanations, and the evidence of
      drug analysis, and general implausiblity of the whole strychnine
      concept, we can conclude that it isn't due to any concentration of
      strychnine.  Also, while it can't completely be ruled out, the
      presence of strychnine in LSD is so minimal that the majority of
      LSD users will never once come across it.

Comments?

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From: palmer@tallis.enet.dec.com (Colonel Mode)
Date: 6 Mar 92 17:32:01 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: There is no strychnine. None, none, none.


To my knowledge, the only plants that contain strychnine are the Asian tree,
Strychnos nux-vomica, and perhaps a few close relatives in the genus Strychnos.
This is not to say that there are definitely no plants outside of the genus
Strychnos that contain strychnine, but all of the posts to this newsgroup that
claim strychnine is found in "X" that I have read have been false.

Strychnine is not found in Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, peyote, LSD, discount
luncheon meats, Chilean grapes, or even modern-day rat poisons.

The most likely place to find strychnine is in myths posted to alt.drugs based
on hearsay and other unreliable sources.

Read "The Botany and Chemistry of the Hallucinogens", by Richard Evans Shultes
and Albert Hoffman. They are respected scientists who know what they are talking
about. Don't take my word for it. Certainly don't take the word of authors of
flakey pamphlets or usenet randoms who spout myths heard from their friends.

*****
Chris Palmer
palmer@tallis.enet.dec.com "Colonel Mode"
work:(508)486-6667 dtn:226-6667


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From: George.Root@leading.org (George Root)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 11:02:00 +0000
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: What are the different kinds of LSD?

IB>>What do you mean by different kinds? LSD-25 is LSD-25...you know, the
IB>>"Heaven or Hell Drug" (LIFE MAGAZINE circa 1965). It may be in different
IB>>potencies -- 250 micrograms to 1,000 -- ya never know. Beware of
IB>>garbage. I am not familiar with any companies marketing the stuff under
IB>>a brand name with quality control, listed ingrediants, etc...at least
IB>>not in the USA. Back in the "old days" (my time - '66-70) you could
IB>>trust purple Owsleys and Chocolat chips...and "Dubechek's Revenge" which
IB>>was like cellophane blotters or something.   <deletions>

 > well, i dunno that much, but I know the difference between regular and
 > poison acid. Poison acid you have absolutly no control over your body
 > whatsoever. That's the stuff people think they're oranges and if anyone
 > touches them as they try t peel of their face they will turn into orange
 > juice. about all i know, other than that it's all different, most have
 > speed, almost all, fake nowadays is just speed or rat poison,
 > umm..that's it

From 1972 to 1977 i was Director of Florida's anonymous
street drug testing program (Clearwater Free Clinic/Drug
Analysis Project) and later was a research associate with
UpFront, Inc. in Miami (1978 & 79).  During this period of
time i was directly familiar with the results from our
analytical labs and those operating in California, Oregon
and Detroit.  I recall NO instances of samples of (actual)
LSD being combined with strychnine, brucine or amphetamines
and derivitives of amphetamine.  (Which is not to say that
there were no instances of people intentionally co-dosing
with other drugs such as amphetamine; seems to me there were
some clinical experiments where such a combination was tested
and i recall people telling me about instances when they had
done the same.)

Of course, there were samples that were out-and-out
misrepresentations.  Generally these were easily
distinguished from legitamate LSD by such signs as dosage
quantity and form.  Strychnine, brucine and amphetamine are
typically active at dosage levels in the milligram ranges
which are considerably higher than that of LSD.  I also
recall that there was a time when "white crosses" were
analyzed to be brucine rather than amphetamine.

In the early 70's the typical dosage range of LSD on the
street was from ~100 ug to ~300 ug.  From the late 70's to
the present (far as i know) the typical dosase is ~40 ug to
~100 ug (with some exceptions, the "Bay Area" blotters are
typically in higher dose ranges than that of "Southern
Cal.")

It may well be, from what folks tell me, that typical dose
ranges have crept up again from the typical lows of the
80's.  It has been many years since i have been directly
involved with qualitative/quantitative analysis programs.

The physiological signs which people attribute to being due
to "bad acid" or to stychinine, amphetamine and the like
seem to show up in the literature for clinical
experimentation with LSD.  So, it is likely that to some
extent these effects are potentially found in association
with LSD itself.  Although, based on field work and other
experience i am inclined to think that factors such as
dietary, endocrine rythems & diurnal cycles, as well as
set & setting influence the extent to which undesirable
effects may exhibit with various entheogens.  The Yachajruna
(Quijos, Ecuador) who was my informant was very particular
about diet and lunar phase when using (enetama)
Banisteriopsis sp.  Many traditional users of entheogens
(i.e., shaman's as categorized in anthropology) insist
on "purification(s)" being performed before utilization of
an entheogen.

Further, there are possibly effects which might be attributed to
the agent (LSD) such as by-products of synthesis and
degradation products.  It seems reasonable that this would
increase the likelyhood of undesirable effects... yet even
this is not real clear as there is so much variation between
individuals and individual trips.  I have observed people
who had signs of discomfort yet reported no subjective
discomfort and vice-versa.

All exogenous agents seem to produce varying degrees of
desirable/undesirable effects.


Cheers
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 19
--- via Silver Xpress V4.01 [NR]

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    George Root
    George.Root@leading.org
    The Leading Edge BBS                    Wurtsboro, NY (914) 888-4295
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