From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,alt.psychoactives Subject: Re: Nootropics Date: 7 JUN 93 12:44:26 Message-ID: <1uvsvdINNdmv@usenet.pa.dec.com> >> I'm new to this group so could someone please tell me, is this a good >> place to look for info/discussions on nootropics or would another >> group/mailing list be more suitable? I'm not sure, so I've added ALT.PSYCHOACTIVES to the list, since they seem to discuss them there. Nootropics, from what I can tell, is pretty much an offshoot of pharmacological memory research, promoting an emphasis on enhancement of cognitive and memory functions rather than prophylaxis or treatment of memory disorders, or illumination of memory mechanisms, as most of the original research was doing years back when Vasopressin and Piracetam were among the only compounds in this category, and there was no such commonly used term as Nootropics. _Some_ popularly labelled 'smart' chemicals are more nutritional in nature, often based on the notion that dietary precursors for some neurotransmitters or neuromodulators can beneficically influence brain chemistry. This has some legitimate theoretical basis, as with Dr. Wurtman's research at MIT, but seems to have little reliable clinical support as anything you could use practicall to improve your performance at complex mental tasks. While dietary variations can influence levels of brain signalling chemicals, the nutritional supplements commonly seen seem to effect mental function at best haphazardly when at all. _Pharmaceutical_ nootopics (as opposed to the dietary supplements) sometimes have definite neurological effects, but conclusions about the significance of those effects in enhancing human mental functions appears very premature. There is a good review of 'Smart Drugs' by Steven Rose in the April 17,1993 issue of _New_Scientist_. He surveys the medical literature, evaluates its quality, and draws some tentative general conclusions about the value of these drugs. His overall conclusion is that someone looking for mental performance enhancement would be better advised to seek it in ancient mnemonic techniques than modern pharmaceuticals. The same issue also has an article on the general subject, including the consumer industry around 'Smart' chemicals. A popular introductory text on drug actions in the brain; Cooper, Bloom, and Roth's _Biochemical_Basis_of_Neuropharmacology_, devotes a section at the end to the question "Are there natural memory drugs ?" The 6th edition (1991) states ... "Back in the third edition, in our last outing onto the sea of memory modulators, we mentioned the growing literature on the ability of natural hormones such as vasopressin and adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), as well as 'endocrinologically inert' fragments derived from them, either to repair learning deficiencies in hypophysectomized rats or to delay or accelerate the extinction of a previously learned performance. "Unfortunately, as pathways containing these peptides were more clearly defined in their projections to targets other than the posterior pituitary, and as the known barriers to diffusion of these peptides from the blood stream into the brain were shown to apply to all of them, this once promising area became a source of contention. However, this body of research remains an important case study for scholars of the neuropharmacology of behavior." They later add, after a discussion of the voluminous research on vasopressin in particular ... "Future research will probably establish the superficiality of such interpretations as the following : (1) vasopressin acts directly on 'memory processes'; (2) vasopressin can be an aversive hormone than when given at non-physiological doses arouses the animal who then learns better. We await eagerly the answers to this mind-drug-behavior puzzle, but they may not be found in the next edition, either." kind regards, todd +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Todd I. Stark stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation (215) 542-3573 | | Philadelphia, Pa. USA | | "(A word is) the skin of a living thought" Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ============================================================================= From: dvss!jtroy@udel.edu (Jay Troy) Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives Subject: SUMMARY: DMAE, Choline, etc... Now what? Message-ID: <940726.185237.1p5.rusnews.w165w@dvss.UUCP> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 18:52:37 EST Hi folks, I posted the following message to alt.drugs and alt.psychoactives a few days ago. This is a summery of the excellent information included in some of the replys to the posting. If people are really interested, perhaps this can evolve into a DMAE/smart drug/nutrient FAQ with a little formatting, and editting. Also, if you want to talk about some of this stuff, feel free to email me. > I've been reading here about attention/concetration enhancing, and it > seems that DMAE, L-Tyrosine, and Choline (Lecithin) are the current > non-Rx recomendations. I went out and bought Source Naturals DMAE > (351mg/130mg pure DMAE US$12), GNC L-Tyrosine (500mg US$10), and some > Soy Lecithin (1200mg US$4). I plan to begin experimenting with this > stuff immediately, but I would like to talk to some people with some > positive (or otherwise) experiences with similar experiments. Any > recomendations, info would be greatly appreciated. Info liberaly stolen from responses by (in no particular order): cram@panix.com dkp@crl.com ref@bga.com Renef@hacktic.nl (I hope none of you is offended by my rampant paraphrasing) All information should be considered anecdotal, for INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. It's not recommended that you self-medicate or self-prescribe without consulting a physician. I am not responsible for your actions, only you can be responsible for your own behavior. - DMAE, Dimethylaminoethanol - DMAE is either a drug or nutrient depending on it's packaging. It's found naturally in the brain and certain seafoods. DMAE increases intelligence, memory, and learning ability; it also produces a better mood, and more energy. DMAE works by stimulating the production of choline in the brain, which helps the brain produce more aceytlcholine. Aceytlcholine is the main neurotransmitter. It promotes learning and memory function. DMAE is supposed to work even better when coupled with vitamin B5 and calcium panthothenate. Your milage may vary. Effects > The DMAE will take a week or two before you notice any effects. You > can speed things up a little by taking larger amounts at first, say > two tabs twice a day, until you start "feeling something." I've found this to be pretty true. I started DMAE about 1.5 weeks ago, and I was taking double doses (2x Source Naturals DMAE tabs). It took about three days of this for me to feel anything. Now when I take it I get a slightly drunk feeling, but it's also the kind of buzz that I get when I experience a super-heightened sense of concentration (like when I'm obsessed with what I'm working on). It's a good buzz, not a bad or distracting buzz. It's not intrusive, I find that I can either "go with it", or simply ignore it and carry on. Which DMAE tab I have Source Naturals, 351mg DMAE. It seems to work. I got another message that claimed that other brands can *greatly* vary in price and quality. The same posted claimed that the Twinlabs DMAE seemed not to have an effect. Liquid DMAE vs DMAE tabs I've been taking the tabs from Source Naturals, but others are taking liquid DMAE. On message said that the liquid allowed him to more easily mix the DMAE with other substances. Also, another message claims that the Life Extensions liquid DMAE is stronger than the TwinLabs liquid (3 drops vs 10 drops for 100mg) Mixing DMAE with other things Some of the substances people are mixing with DMAE include Choline, L-Phenylalanine, L-Tyrosine, ALC (L-Acetylcarnitine), Ginko biloba, and other things. Personally, I'm using the Tyrosine, and I'm supplimenting with Lechithin (for it's Choline content). Tyrosine - Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine - These amino acids can alleviate depression, and have been found to improve learning potential. MAO inhibitors should be avoided with any amino acid. L-phenylalanine, according to the books, has a much more pronounced effect than L-tyrosine. Someone suggested the following: > An excellent combination is 500mg of L-phenylalanine and a 351mg tab of > DMAE with a good, high-potency multivitamin every morning with breakfast. > You can repeat the first two at lunch, and if you're going to be up late > partying or fooling around, do it again at supper. Amino acids are supposed to be taken on an empty stomach, though. -Choline- The idea behind taking Choline supplements is this. When you simulate aceytlcholine production, the brain will get the choline from where it's most convenient. Cell memrane is mostly choline, so the brain has a tendancy to get choline there, leaving the cell open for easy destruction (or autocannibalism). If you suppliment with choline, hopefully there's enough around that cells don't get destroyed. I get my choline from Soy Lecithin, but the goal is to get a high concentration of phosphatidal choline (20-30%). Mine meets this criteria. Some don't. You can also get Pure Choline PC55 (55% phospatidal) from TwinLabs, but it is pricey. > I use DMAE in liquid form from Twinlab (30 drops =300mg), plus > phosphatidyl choline from Twinlab (2 tsp of granules mixed in juice), > plus 1000mg of vitamin B-5 (Pantothenic Acid). I take this combo every > morning. - Books - Brain Boosters by Beverly Potter and Sebastian Orfali. Smart Drugs & Nutrients Drugs I and II the next generation by Ward Dean, John Morgenthaler. -- Jay Troy Delaware Valley Solution Systems, Inc. Computing Solutions for Business and Industry P.O. Box 190 // Claymont, DE 19703 // (302)798-DVSS Internet: ...!udel.edu!dvss!jtroy (jtroy@dvss.UUCP)