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Offline ST1R

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Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« on: November 28, 2009, 05:23:48 pm »
Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'

Widespread spiking of drinks with date-rape drugs such as Rohypnol and GHB is an "urban legend" fuelled by young women unwilling to accept they have simply consumed too much alcohol, academics believe.

By Stephen Adams
Published: 6:10AM GMT 27 Oct 2009

A study of more than 200 students revealed many wrongly blamed the effects of a "bad night out" on date-rape drugs, when they had just drunk excessively.

Many are in "active denial" that drinking large amounts of alcohol can leave them "incoherent and incapacitated", the Kent University researchers concluded.

Young women's fears about date-rape drugs are so ingrained that students mistakenly think it is a more important factor in sexual assault than being drunk, taking drugs or walking alone at night.

The study, published in the British Journal of Criminology, found three-quarters of students identified drink spiking as an important risk – more than alcohol or drugs.

More than half said they knew someone whose drink had been spiked.

But despite popular beliefs, police have found no evidence that rape victims are commonly drugged with such substances, the researchers said.

Dr Adam Burgess from the university's School of Social Policy, Sociology and Social Research, said: "Young women appear to be displacing their anxieties about the consequences of consuming what is in the bottle on to rumours of what could be put there by someone else.

"The reason why fear of drink-spiking has become widespread seems to be a mix of it being more convenient to guard against than the effects of alcohol itself and the fact that such stories are exotic – like a more adult version of 'stranger danger'."

Rituals to protect drinks from contamination, such as taking drinks to the lavatory in clubs and bars and buying only bottled drinks, have become commonplace, the academics noted.

Among young people, drink spiking stories have attractive features that could "help explain" their disproportionate loss of control after drinking alcohol, the study found.

Dr Burgess said: "Our findings suggest guarding against drink spiking has also become a way for women to negotiate how to watch out for each other in an environment where they might well lose control from alcohol consumption."

Co-researcher Dr Sarah Moore said: "We would be very interested in finding out whether the urban myth of spiking is also the result of parents feeling unable to discuss with their adult daughters how to manage drinking and sex and representing their anxieties about this through discussion of drink spiking risks."

Nick Ross, chair of the Jill Dando Institute of Crime Science, commented: "There is no evidence of widespread use of hypnotics in sexual assault, let alone Rohypnol, despite many attempts to prove the contrary.

"During thousands of blood and alcohol tests lots of judgement-impairing compounds were discovered, but they were mostly street drugs or prescription pharmaceuticals taken by the victims themselves, and above all alcohol was the common theme.

"As Dr Burgess observes, it is not scientific evidence which keeps the drug rape myth alive but the fact that it serves so many useful functions."

Dr Burgess and his team questioned more than 200 students at universities in London and south east England.

Earlier this year, Australian researchers found that nont one of 97 young men and women admitted to hospital over 19 months to two Perth hospital claiming to have had their drinks spiked, had in fact been drugged.
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 05:30:37 pm »
So, instead of looking at documented rape cases (in the criminological files) where alcohol consumption was involved, and the victims unknowingly showed up positive for other drugs in their system, they decided to take a random poll of 200 alcoholics and heavy drinkers to skew their alleged statistics that date rape is a myth? :roll: Utterly laughable.
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Offline Ford2City

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 05:53:52 pm »
don't drink the jungle juice unless you plan on passing out :wink:
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Offline ST1R

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 06:06:24 pm »
So, instead of looking at documented rape cases (in the criminological files) where alcohol consumption was involved, and the victims unknowingly showed up positive for other drugs in their system...


How would they drug them them after the fact?
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 06:22:52 pm »
How would they drug them them after the fact?

I mean in the case files, where there was a victim of a rape who was drinking at the time, who also showed up for drugs in his/her system when the police department did the rape kit and routine physical on her. It's standard procedure to conduct drug testing after a sexual assault case. These cases aren't "made up," and I find it audacious that somebody would be so callous and ignorant as to imply that rape doesn't exist. But I suppose there are people who deny that the Holocaust ever happened, too.  :roll:

This sampling doesn't prove anything except that THE FEAR of date rape might be abnormal or a little too prevalent in culture. But to simply deny that incidents that have been proven and documents in the past EVER occur, just because an interview of 200 heavy drinking college students proved to be a farce... well, that's a little fallacious logic there.  :-X
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pharmanimal78

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 08:25:15 pm »
They didn't say that it never happens, if I read that right. (I'm not rereading it)

And a couple hundred cases is nothing. But all in all, from my perspective, I see it largely as a bitch getting a little too loose & crying wolf. Besides, GHB isn't even a good choice, tactically speaking, when there's rohypnol, ketamine & benzos available.

NaGHB is SALTY AS FUCK. GBL you can't begin to hide. BDO would be the most viable but still, you know when you're getting loaded.

Alcohol itself is the primary, longest lived disinhibitor of all time.

They aren't saying that GHB date rape doesn't happen, just that it's about as uncommon as most G users suspect. ;)

Offline biochemist

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 08:26:35 pm »
Does rohypnol have a taste at all?  I always figured it would be pretty hard to have a drink not taste spiked if you were going to just splash a pill or bit of GHB into someone's drink when they are not looking, especially without mixing it up or anything.

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 08:28:48 pm »
Where does it say that these 200 subjects were heavy drinkers, let alone alcoholic? What undeniable evidence do you have that anyone has been drugged and sexually assaulted? I'd think it's pretty sound to say that if a tox screen is performed on sexual assault victims that some recreational GHB users would deny it and say "golly! I have no idea how that would have gotten there!"

maybe such cases have existed, maybe not. But all this article is saying is that no widespread drugging is happening, and that the myth to the contrary has resulted in misidentifying the risk factors for sexual asault.  
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pharmanimal78

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 08:29:24 pm »
It wouldn't take much rohypnol. But then again, a large part of this situation being feasible in theory is that nobody seems to notice 2 people just making contact & suddenly the woman falls into some weird state of self composure (if at all) and this never raises any questions....

Yeah, your bartender is likely to notice something whack I think.

Offline ST1R

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 09:05:14 pm »
One thing I always thought was weird with G and fam being used for a date rape drug is the dosing. At doses when one would typically pass out there is often vomiting associated. Once when my GF fucked up her dosing and accidentally dosed an extra ml of BDO after trying to vomit unsuccessful she asked me to date rape her when she passed out. She was always curious about what date rape would be like. I never got the chance. After puking for about an hour, I tried to get her pants off and she was aware of what was happening and kept telling me to come back when she was unconscious :haha:  BDO wouldn't work with alcohol anyway as alcohol get metabolized first. I assume if one was drinking and kept drinking the BDO would never kick in. I know when I was drinking the next morning BDO wouldn't do anything until the residual alcohol wore off.

Rohyp makes sense as benzos and lq can easily give anyone amnesia but BDO and GBL would be noticeable flavor wise. I couldn't say about GHB or ketamine.
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Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 09:21:58 pm »
How available is Rohyp? It's not 1977...

Maybe I'm not a rapist-type, but I dunno. Fucking a passed out girl sounds like as much fun as fucking a corpse... Still, a while back there was a post about drug-testing-drink coasters, and a suspected drink did supposedly come back positive using that product - though I don't know how reliable the claim was, might have been something the manufacturer related...

What is most interesting is the lack of convictions. Most of the stuff on the net is information. Date rapists do get caught occasionally, but I'd think that if it was so common we'd be hearing more. As Mis pointed out, there is the problem of having a 110 pound+ wet noodle to take home. With everyone looking out for Chester the GHB Molester, you'd think they'd be caught regularly when the girls notice that Shelly is being dragged out of the bar by her ankles.
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Offline ST1R

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 09:51:18 pm »
Roofies are still rx'd in most countries but like GHB unless you've been getting it rx'd for years its almost impossible to get, legally.

I agree, I never got the date rape thing. Its like sleep porn. I like to watch a girl get off but thats just me. A chick just laying there is so far from sexy.

This is pretty interesting, regarding how often these drugs are used for date rape, from wiki.

Quote
Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) is popularly held to be a date rape drug although very little evidence exists for its use for this purpose [9].

and

Quote
A study in the UK found that only 2 percent of a pool of 1,014 rape victims had their drinks spiked with sedatives.[5][6] Another UK study of 75 women who thought their drinks had been tampered with in pubs or clubs found that none had been given a surreptitious drug. They had simply become intoxicated (drunk).[7] Similarly, a 2009 Australian study concluded that of 97 patients admitted to hospital claiming to have had their drinks spiked none had, in fact, been drugged.[8]

Alcohol Is Most Common 'Date Rape' Drug
Article Date: 15 Oct 2007


Alcohol, not drugs, poses biggest date rape risk
07 January 2006


Drug rape myth exposed as study reveals binge drinking is to blame
February 2007

Quote
Last month a personal safety campaigner claimed that Rohypnol had never been used to assist a sexual assault in the UK....
The 12-month study was based on 75 patients - mostly women - treated in casualty who told doctors their drinks had been tampered with in pubs or clubs.
But tests for drugs such as Rohypnol, GHB and ketamine found nothing, says the study published in the Emergency Medicine Journal.

Drink spiking claims rejected
June 16, 2009

Quote
Australian researchers have found that not one of the 97 young men and women admitted over 19 months to two Perth hospitals claiming to have had their drinks spiked had, in fact, been drugged.

"We did not identify a single case where a sedative drug was likely to have been illegally placed in a drink in a pub or nightclub," researcher Mark Little said.

Interesting to note the many years this article appears in various forms.
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Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2009, 10:56:10 pm »
From what I understand about Perth, my parents live there, it can be a pretty wild place. I'd imagine if there were drugs being slipped into drinks, it would be happening there at least as much as anywhere...
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 10:58:43 pm by foreward »
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2009, 11:01:57 pm »
Quote
Where does it say that these 200 subjects were heavy drinkers, let alone alcoholic? What undeniable evidence do you have that anyone has been drugged and sexually assaulted? I'd think it's pretty sound to say that if a tox screen is performed on sexual assault victims that some recreational GHB users would deny it and say "golly! I have no idea how that would have gotten there!"

So, simply because *snip go search on statistics about date rape, IT MUST MEAN IT ISN’T TRUE!!! (Right, because rape as a crime is soooo difficult to believe, right?) What a sad appeal to ignorance, that is. *snip

Let’s see: Where does it say they were heavy drinkers?!?! I believe it had something to do with the fact that many of them consumed large quantities of alcohol, enough to believe they were inebriated on an alternate chemical.  :roll: I believe the part about them dismissing the existence of date rapes was somewhere when they classified it as an “urban legend” or “no evidence that rape victims have been drugged.”

Frankly, it’s blanket statements such as these (and this entire article as a matter of fact) that make it difficult for people to support the anti-prohibitionist movement.

*sigh*

Go to your local law enforcement district; you should be able to approach a detective or district attorney, who should be able to direct you to nationwide statistics and date rape numbers. However, since you probably won’t, either out of sheer laziness or stupidity, I suppose I will have to do the research for you:
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/219181.pdf
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001955.htm
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e07063411.pdf
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/nibrs/2002all.html
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

I can accept that there is 1 portion in which the date rape crisis has been misinterpreted through the public, and that is that alcohol by itself is the most commonly used date rape drug. But to blatantly claim that drug-induced date rape doesn't occur is extremely outlandish, and an overbearingly extremist statement, even for this board. Like hey, while we're at it, why don't we just deny that drug-induced murders have ever occurred too!  :? Offhand I can name a number of famous killers who have drugged their victims before raping or murdering them.

Another small UK study found that out of ER patients who believe their drink had been spiked, 3% showed positive for sedatives that were uknowingly taken:
Quote
Greene SL, Shiew CM, Streete P, Mustchin SJ, Hugget D, Earl B, Dargan PI.

Guys and St Thomas' Poisons Unit, Guys and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust, London, UK.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the incidence and character of drink spiking in an urban population of patients within the UK presenting to an emergency department concerned they had consumed a deliberately contaminated drink. STUDY DESIGN: Prospective case series determining the presence and quantity of sedative and illicit drugs, and ethanol in biological samples (blood and urine) obtained from consenting patients >18 years of age presenting to a large inner city London emergency department alleging they had consumed a spiked drink within the previous 12 h. RESULTS: Biological samples were obtained from 67 (blood) and 75 (urine) of 78 study participants. 82% of participants were female, mean age 24 years. Mean time from alleged exposure to biological sampling was 5.9 h (range 1-12 h). Ethanol was detected in 89.7% of participants. Mean serum ethanol concentration was 1.65 g/l (range 0.04-3.1 g/l); 60% of participants had a serum ethanol concentration associated with significant intoxication (>1.5 g/l). Illicit drugs were detected in 12 (15%) participants; 7 denied intentional exposure (3 methylenedioxymethamphetamine, 3 cannabis, 1 gamma-hydroxybutyrate). Medicinal drugs were detected in 13 participants; only 1 exposure was unexplained (benzodiazepine). Overall illicit or medicinal drugs of unexplained origin were detected in 8 (10%) participants. Unexplained sedative drug exposure was detected in only 2 (3%) participants. CONCLUSIONS: Use of sedative drugs to spike drinks may not be as common as reported in the mainstream media. A large number of study participants had serum ethanol concentrations associated with significant intoxication; the source (personal over-consumption or deliberate drink spiking) is unclear.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18057174?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

So, again, all the proof mounts up to the fact that date rape may be an overhyped media scare, but much like the swine flu, is most certainly there.

Also, I posted a long time ago about some of the techniques law enforcement use to detect whether somebody is lying, and thereby effectively break them down into confession. These same techniques are used on rape victims, and I highly doubt a majority of them pose the skills to lie convincingly. Since you don’t know about this, it is obvious you have no expertise in this area, so you probably shouldn’t act like you know what you’re talking about.  :wink:

Quote
What is most interesting is the lack of convictions. Most of the stuff on the net is information. Date rapists do get caught occasionally, but I'd think that if it was so common we'd be hearing more. As Mis pointed out, there is the problem of having a 110 pound+ wet noodle to take home. With everyone looking out for Chester the GHB Molester, you'd think they'd be caught regularly when the girls notice that Shelly is being dragged out of the bar by her ankles.

The problem is that date rape is the most difficult type of crime to prove. Unconscious people typically do not suffer from vaginal trauma from rape, unless something extreme were to occur (without physical evidence or witnesses, where is the burden of proof?). Another impediment is the fact that many victims who are drugged have blocked memory—how reliable is their testimony if their memory is hazy or blurred, or if they WERE on drugs? Lastly, even if they show positive for drugs in their system, how do you prove it was the perpetrator who slipped it in their drink? How do you know that they didn’t take it consciously, or at a different incident?

This is the reason most rape cases end up piling up on a DA’s desk, and never end up getting prosecuted.

*Edited out the pointless name calling and insults. Watch it xtyl you don't need to resort to those tactics to get your point across.
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 01:07:59 pm by ST1R »
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Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2009, 11:39:48 pm »
Appeal to ridicule
Proof by verbosity
False attribution
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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 08:50:02 am »
Gentle reminder to please keep things civil.

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pharmanimal78

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 09:31:25 am »
I swear I'm having the hardest time seeing where anyone said that date rape never happens.... Maybe it's willful blindness because it's just never happened to me. 

Well, then again, you can't rape the willing...

Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2009, 09:58:44 am »
All that verbatim was saying is that it is nearly impossible to prove with certainty how often date rape incidents are a result of spiking. She never said that rape doesn't happen. (don't ask how I know what v meant. I just "do" :wink:)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 10:00:44 am by foreward »
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pharmanimal78

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2009, 10:28:46 am »
Oh I know. I was just addressing crystal's stance, as it appears to me, that they're somehow downplaying the fact that date rape sometimes occurs, which they didn't. I just saw her going a little thermonuclear anti-article because she didn't like the results.

Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 11:02:19 am »
I know mis, I was backing you up. I think crystal went thermonuclear because she likes going thermonuclear.
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2009, 03:17:36 pm »
Oh I know. I was just addressing crystal's stance, as it appears to me, that they're somehow downplaying the fact that date rape sometimes occurs, which they didn't. I just saw her going a little thermonuclear anti-article because she didn't like the results.

First answer me: How can anybody believe that distant observation of 200 inexperienced, yet likely heavy-drinking college students during a SPECIFIC instance in their lives, is an accurate representation of the rape population?

Might I add that college students typically drink in their dorms or out in large groups when hitting the clubs or frats, so incidents of date rape is unlikely to occur in those situations.

And please, ever since these results came out, half-assed "articles" such as these have basically been implying it: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/Date-rape-drugs-an-excuse-given-by-sozzled-women/articleshow/5170529.cms

Nevermind the fact that these authors are trying to pitch a story more than they are trying to convey the REAL TRUTH of what those studies were actually saying.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 03:33:38 pm by Mens Rea »
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Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2009, 03:52:27 pm »
Well, certainly the media had sensationalized Dr. Moore's statement about spiking being an urban legend. But at the same time I don't think when looking at date rape drink spiking is as significant a risk as other activities which put women at greater risk (and before you go off on this tangent, I am not blaming the victim). Despite how this article was spun, the data does not indicate anything other than this misconception.

The problem which arises is that many young women might over-estimate the risk of spiked drinks and feel overly secure when they take measures to avoid this, while neglecting other precautions which will more likely put them at risk.

I think that there is a risk that some people will under estimate more significant risks by over estimating the spiked drinks risk which may be relatively low.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 03:53:43 pm by foreward »
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2009, 04:02:21 pm »
Well, certainly the media had sensationalized Dr. Moore's statement about spiking being an urban legend. But at the same time I don't think when looking at date rape drink spiking is as significant a risk as other activities which put women at greater risk (and before you go off on this tangent, I am not blaming the victim). Despite how this article was spun, the data does not indicate anything other than this misconception.

The problem which arises is that many young women might over-estimate the risk of spiked drinks and feel overly secure when they take measures to avoid this, while neglecting other precautions which will more likely put them at risk.

I think that there is a risk that some people will under estimate more significant risks by over estimating the spiked drinks risk which may be relatively low.

That is true, that date rape is likely overhyped in the general public. My dispute is not with the actual studies (as I am sure the British Journal of Criminology's studies have been very misinterpreted), more than it is some of these media authors (who are only trying to pitch the same drink-spiking media hype in the other direction).

So, I tracked down the journal to make sure; I was only able to get into the abstract, before hitting a wall (guess you have to pay fees to log in):
Quote
Embodying Uncertainty?
Understanding Heightened Risk Perception of Drink ‘Spiking’
Adam Burgess, Pamela Donovan and Sarah E. H. Moore*

* School of Sociology, Social Policy, and Social Work, Queen's University, Belfast, UK; s.moore@qub.ac.uk; Senior Lecturer at University of Kent, UK; Associate Professor at Bloomsburg University, USA; Lecturer at Queen's University, Belfast, UK.
Abstract

There is a stark contrast between heightened perceptions of risk associated with drug-facilitated sexual assault (DFSA) and a lack of evidence that this is a widespread threat. Through surveys and interviews with university students in the United Kingdom and United States, we explore knowledge and beliefs about drink-spiking and the linked threat of sexual assault. University students in both locations are not only widely sensitized to the issue, but substantial segments claim first- or second-hand experience of particular incidents. We explore students’ understanding of the DFSA threat in relationship to their attitudes concerning alcohol, binge-drinking, and responsibility for personal safety. We suggest that the drink-spiking narrative has a functional appeal in relation to the contemporary experience of young women's public drinking.

Key Words: drug-facilitated sexual assault • uncertainty • personal safety • drugs • alcohol • universities
http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/49/6/848

Does anybody know what the margin of error of this process sampling was? >5%?
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Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2009, 04:05:57 pm »
I'd get the article, but my wife's login never worked from home. If I think of it, I'll look it up next time I'm at the college library... It is totally impossible to really know what the researchers were saying through the media.

One article that was swimming through the web was that "feeding your kid junkfood will make them into violet criminals". However, the researchers conclusion was that poor diet in children can be used as an indicator to socio-economic factors which may contribute to child's later involvement in the justice system.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 04:08:47 pm by foreward »
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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2009, 04:12:26 pm »
I followed up one of the sources referenced from the paper the article is based on:

Toxicological findings in cases of alleged drug-facilitated sexual assault in the United Kingdom over a 3-year period.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16054005

They analyzed blood/urine tests for women of suspected drink-spiking incidents over several years in the UK and found that alcohol & cannabis were by far the most common drugs in complainants systems.

Interesting:
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.. there were only a very few cases identified where a sedative or disinhibiting drug was detected when its presence could not be explained by the complainant (e.g. by taking the drug on prescription). Only 2% of the cases (approximately 2% of the total number of cases) were identified as deliberate spiking cases, i.e. where the presence of an unexplained sedative or disinhibiting drug could not be attributed to voluntary use


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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2009, 04:38:07 pm »
Might I also add that one of the studies took their sampling specifically from college students who ranked date rape as the biggest risk factor, indicating possibly either hypochondriasis or delusional histronic personality disorder among those 200 students.

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They analyzed blood/urine tests for women of suspected drink-spiking incidents over several years in the UK and found that alcohol & cannabis were by far the most common drugs in complainants systems.

Lol, alcohol and marijuana gets you way more drunk!!! It's a fact!  :haha:

Maybe we are the only people who would actually be happy to get our drink spiked.  :?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 05:01:10 pm by Mens Rea »
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Offline foreward

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2009, 06:40:50 pm »
You cannot possibly be implying that even the majority of those students interviewed have a diagnosable personality disorder, are you?
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2009, 07:34:51 pm »
Foreward, you seriously have a bad habit of nitpicking over the most minute, trivial shit. You do this to virtually every single thread I post in... Quit it! :roll:

FYI, I managed to get some of the interviews directly from the study from which I deduced the prior statement...
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Interviewee: (laughing) Yeah, she’s like ‘ if you leave your drink anywhere, just get another one, don’t
even think about it. If a friend gets a drink for you, you know, say thank you nicely , and then just get
yourself somewhere and put it down ’ (laughs). And she says if someone buys you a drink to go to the
bar with them and see them pour the drink.

Interviewer: That’s very detailed advice ....

Interviewee: She’s very paranoid.

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Interviewee: I’m always quite precautionary, ’ cos when you’re drunk you’ve got to be, you can’t …
you’ve always got to be aware of things. But I think there is always [the threat of drink-spiking] in the
back of your mind now. And I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing, it just means you’re more cautious
… it’s a slight paranoia. I mean, I wouldn’t get paranoid to the extent that it ruins a night, but it’s
a concern. Especially because I don’t really drink bottled drinks … I mean, you don’t always want to
carry [your drink] around everywhere but, really, that’s inevitable .... Like, before, in the Venue you
could leave your drinks and go for a dance. But not so much now. I only leave [my drink] with friends,
but even then … [hesitates].

Interviewer: You wouldn’t leave it with a friend?

Interviewee: No, I do trust my friends, I don’t know why I said that ....

Quote
Interviewer: What sort of things do you hear?
Interviewee: People say ‘ drink as fast as possible ’ , or they just, generally, say ‘ always buy your own
drink ’ , ‘ never let a guy buy the drinks ’ .... There’s also a little bit about cigarettes, as well; a lot of my
friends won’t take cigarettes off people now, because of them being spiked.

It's apparent many of them have some pretty bad anxiety over it. Note how all these women misplace their fear on some devious stranger crawling out of the shadows as a prime suspect, when the reality is that 80-90%+ of all rapes involve an acquaintance, friend, colleague, associate, or family member. Therefore, I would say that these womens' fear of date rape is irrational (and probably results from some anxiety about strangers), because the likelihood of sexual assault by a random unknown is infinitesimally less than by somebody you actually know.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 07:52:05 pm by Mens Rea »
"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on. A psychotic is a guy who's just found out what's going on." -William Burroughs

Offline ST1R

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2009, 09:24:22 pm »
Spiked cigarettes?
Spiked with what? Slipping someone a 5-MeO laced cig in a club could be funny :haha:
Kidding!
Foreward, you seriously have a bad habit of nitpicking over the most minute, trivial shit. You do this to virtually every single thread I post in... Quit it! :roll:

How black is that kettle? :wink:
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Offline Mens Rea

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Re: Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2009, 09:33:09 pm »
Spiked cigarettes?
Spiked with what? Slipping someone a 5-MeO laced cig in a club could be funny :haha:
Kidding!

The one thing about cigarettes I hear is the dipping of cigarettes in PCP oil... still, the likelihood of this is low, even though accidental ingestion of PCP has occurred in the past. But even IF cigarette spiking was a common practice, PCP is such a drug of rarity today (even less prominent in the UK), that it's pretty abnormal for somebody to have apprehension about accepting a cig from a random person off the street.

Quote
How black is that kettle?

Yes, I am very black myself (figuratively speaking), but what I mean is that I have been perceiving that foreward specifically has chosen to persecute me for his own ulterior motives. He even goes as far as to deliberately take an irrelevant comment (usually one that has very little significance to the main post), to take it out of context and dissect it, it in a fallible attempt to "debunk/derail" my point. I do have a habit of argumentation myself, but that is only for the sake of debate. In this way, foreward's bad habits are not linear to mine.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 09:43:34 pm by Mens Rea »
"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on. A psychotic is a guy who's just found out what's going on." -William Burroughs