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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Trip Reports (Moderators: DrYRHead, delysiduous)Topic:
 Brother Let Your Knees Bleed

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

At 2 a.m. this morning I burned a couple bowls and then heated up a turkey and cheese hoagie and then dumped a bag of 250 Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds between the bread. Both the pot and the sandwich were attempts to finally hold my seeds in long enough for the inventory to pleasently poison my innards. I was rather skeptical after a trip last weekend that felt like a good roll and the nontrip I had Saturday night when I puked my foodless guts out fo a while and felt no effects. Oh, how I wish I listened to the voice that warned me so strongly. I am usually very perceptive and 100% trusting in my whimsical instinct, but a dumbass friend I was talking to online egged me on to prove the seeds are good. These are not good intentions for a trip: anger from a previous night of failed dosing, to please someone else.

I ate my invention, The Sullen Choirboy's Disgusting Morning Glory Hoagie, at around 2 or 2:30 a.m. It was the nastiest thing to ever touch my mouth. No pot or food could stop the gagging that comes with morning glory for me. It took at least half an hour to finish. I just gagged thinking about it, thats how disgusting the material produced from chewed meat and seeds is. I gave up on the sandwich after eating a good 7/8 of it and fucked around online for a while(was stoned and also wanted to take my mind off the evil birthing within my flesh walls) until about 4 a.m. when my skepticism was a good friend of the past as I was hit hard by something, hard enough to bring my body down to the desk I was sitting at. I knew I had to get to my room and bed as fast as I could before I would be lost somewhere unsafe to ride out an unfamiliar trip. I ran.

I laid my body down across my cluttered, unfriendly futon and felt my soul being fucked by the cock of manifest hate and despair. My being got the ol' in-an'-out for a while, I tried to take a few hits of the water bong to chill me out and dull my raging entrails, and I entered a world I had never seen before. My eyes were immediatly recognized working at a very different rate, and I saw too much movement in the world for this motion sickness stricken boy to handle. The fan on my ceiling was distorting, stretching, and coming closer. The whole room BREEAAAATHED. Not the warm breathing I expected from reading trip reports, it was a claustrophobic panic attack being realized. The walls were closing in very wickedly. I saw myself to be in a balloon in which the air is being let out at a rapid rate, only to have a small puff pushed back occasionally for someone's sick fancy. These visuals would have been pleasing to me, but the warm, fuzzy feeling I was expecting was absent, leaving a electrified disphoria breathing in its shadow. I don't know what happened next, more of the same I believe, but I remember the pain and desperation.

All of a sudden my mind snaps back(or so I thought) to reality and my clock says it was after 8, then a blank is drawn, then a couple hours later I see myself again leaving my room, this time heading for the bathroom. I was still just as fucked as before the blackness gave gift, but luckily my body was finally doing something about it. Man, it exploded out of both ends at the same time. I was on the toilet expelling liquid feces while a small trash can lie in my lap being filled with the rest of my guts. I wanted death, as I lust for death at this very moment, but I knew it was not to be rewarded. Like I should be so lucky. I sloppily wiped my ass/mouth dry with and had a lay on the den's couch. Sleep must have gifted me shortly and a few hours later my mother was standing over me speaking alien things about a virus, medicine, something to drink. My eyes had to have been showing inebriation(earlier my pupils were bigger than I thought possible, and I still had 3D vision) so I rushed off to my room. This was followed by gut-wrenching vomitting in a trash bag already containing 2 days worth of puking. My room is really starting to smell. Such despair, such disphoria, such pain, I wanted/want to stop the flow of life through this body so bad. I am a very despondant and sad person but my day to day feeling isn't quite like this. It was awful. It was a bad trip that found a way to distort my emotion in a sinister manner along with my vision.

The reason I am writing this is because I have some questions for the sake of future tripping. When a person reaches the level where such heavy breathing of walls and distortion of matter persists, is that always associated with disphoria? People who are experienced with these particular seeds, do they have more good trips or more bad trips? Am I going to respond again this way the next time I might decide to try the seeds? What caused this? What hallucinogens are more likely to grant me euphoria? What do I now?

I am broken at the moment and am seeking just a little guidance in someone's words. Thanks for reading this unnecessarily long nonsense.

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the awful cramping of body, pain of leg, that showed up as soon as the trip started and hung around until the very end. I couldn't walk it hurt so bad.

[JackTheTripper]

Well, it doesn't sound like you're having a great time with the morning glory seeds but if you want to do them again maybe you could just go to the store and buy a coffee bean grinder for ten bucks and use it to grind up the seeds.  Then you could just stir them into some yogurt or a drink of some kind.  Better yet you could mix it into some ground beef and make a Sullen Choirboy's disgusting morning glory cheeseburger!  With an open mind the possibilities are endless!  
Bon appetit!          

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

Damn Jack, I'm surprised I didn't get an "I told you so" out of you about spiritual intent. Thanks. I would have deserved it. I made the mistake of tripping when I was down and tired.

I don't know if I'll ever feel like seeking glory again, but if I do I will definatly do my damnedest to find a way to crush them. I've tried and its really difficult without the appropriate appliances.

I wish the color would come back into my world...

[pineal]

actually, i didn't ever think horrible trips like the one you had were possible. MG has always been almost euphoric, and intense -- in a good way. But not intense that you lose sight of reality. Anyway, go out and get yourself a coffee grinder. Most psychadelics you have to prepare have to be ground, so this is a good investment.
take your seeds, grind em up, throw em in a glass
barely cover with water. Now the whole amount you have, water+seeds, add that much more water, if not a little more. (if you've got a shitload of fuckin seeds, use more water, definitely)
stir for a good 5 minutes or so
let sit for another 3-5 minutes.
stir real briefly again and filter the mush through a t-shirt or something.
Get some coffee filters and filter this liquid many times...i dunno...5-10 times maybe. And don't be afraid to squeeze the liquid through the filter, it won't want to go by itself.
take the liquid, pour it into a tall glass of orange juice (or whatever you think'll mask the taste) and gulp down. You should have a great trip assuming your set and setting are right. Now, i've eaten morning glory seed straight (chewed and ground) and never had such horrible gastro-intestinal problems as you, i haven't puked, so you're insides don't seem to like this stuff very much. So without the actual seed matter this method should do a lot better.
lemme know how it works
pineal

[lsdmt]

a dumbass friend? i hope this would not be referring to me or anybody else in #visionary, because you were the one trying to find reason to do it yourself.  take responsibility for your own actions.

[mojo]

heated up a turkey and cheese hoagie and then dumped a bag of 250 Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds between the bread. Both the pot and the sandwich were attempts to finally hold my seeds in long enough for the inventory to pleasently poison

 Good grief man stop eating so much crap. You should try fasting for a day before your journeys. It will reduce the gastric discomfort. Maybe plan your trip in advance. If you don

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

quote

a dumbass friend? i hope this would not be referring to me or anybody else in #visionary, because you were the one trying to find reason to do it yourself. take responsibility for your own actions.

But it was you! Haha, just kidding. Nobody from visionary. That part was meant to tease the person, and he didn't find it very funny either. I wouldn't dare blame the outcome on someone else.

 

quote

Good grief man stop eating so much crap. You should try fasting for a day before your journeys. It will reduce the gastric discomfort. Maybe plan your trip in advance. If you don’t have a purpose for your trip you will find many substances will can kick your ass to hell and back. They will teach you to respect them. That’s my 2 cents worth.

I tried morning glory after a day of fasting and found it to be much more of a mistake than filling my gut with nasty food. Fasting didn't take away ANY discomfort, all it did was make the puking more painful since I didn't have anything to heave. And I know I went into my latest mg trip the wrong way. I made that mistake only once and I won't be doing that again.

[aphextwin]

....LSA IS NOT WATER SOLUABLE or however you spell that... Sullen: get the coffee grinder blah blah blah then do what that cat said with the straining and what not, but POUR THE WATER IN THE TOILET, the water contains all the nasty shit that makes you puke, then make another The Sullen Choirboy's Disgusting Morning Glory Hoagie with the grounds, and enjoy a painless, nausea free trip, compliments of her majesty, MG.

[hermes]

-----------------------------------
THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IN CAPS WAS ADDED ON 3/19/2003. I ADDED IT TO TRY TO ALLEVIATE SOME CONFUSION IN READING THIS THREAD SINCE IT IS OFTEN REFERRED TO WHEN PEOPLE DISCUSS LSA EXTRACTION. SINCE THESE POSTS WERE WRITTEN, ONE OF THE POSTERS CHANGED HIS HANDLE. THE PERSON REFERRED TO AS RICHARD D JAMES OR RDJ IS THE ONE NOW CALLED "WANKA." DO NOT TAKE WHAT WANKA SAYS SERIOUSLY. HE IS WRONG IN WHAT HE CLAIMS IN THIS THREAD. HE DID SURRENDER AT THE END IF YOU'LL NOTICE. LSA IS WATER SOLUBLE! I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE NOT MISLED BY HIS POSTS.
-----------------------------------


Richard, where do you get your information? LSA IS VERY WATER SOLUBLE! The stuff that gives problems is not! You have it backwards! Do you want me to show you the literature? I can show you the structure of the molecule itself and tell you why it is water soluble! I can give the MERCK reference. LSA is a polar molecule. I know from experience as well, as I have done the water extraction many times and used only the water and any water soluble substances from the seeds. From this, I have experienced incredible things. The more I limit the extraction to the most water-soluble stuff, the cleaner the experience is, with no nausea, no cramps, nothing! Get your facts straight before you poison someone!


Why is everyone so opposed to filtration? What is all this "grind the seeds and then eat them" crap? YOU DO NOT WANT THE PULP! It contains shit that will poison you! How many times do people like Pineal and I have to point this out?!

Grind well

Soak (not too long--the shorter the cleaner, but also, the shorter the less efficient. Compromise. Soak for 10-20 minutes.)

Filter well (Final filter should be at least as fine as a tea bag and with no holes)

Discard pulp

Keep water

IS THIS TOO COMPLICATED? I feel like a broken record!

Here's a really simple and quick method.

Grind seeds in coffee grinder (Grinders are not that expensive! If you still live with mommy and daddy and don't want to make too much noise for fear of exposing yourself, you shouldn't be messing with this crap anyway! You are not mature enough to have the proper respect for the chemical and the setting, which is necessary for a clean and safe experience. You kids and your reckless use will only get the seeds outlawed and ruin it for everyone, or worse, you might get yourselves killed! Stick to pot for now. When you grow up, you can partake of grown-up things. By the way, this was not pointed at anyone in particular, only any kids that might be reading.)

After grinding, put ground stuff in a couple of big "family size" tea bags.

Put teabags in a 20 oz glass or cup of distilled water (distilled water, not spring water--you don't want extra crap like all the minerals that are in spring water) and let sit for 20 minutes. (Make sure the bags are well saturated with the water and move them around and dunk and squeeze them gently with a spoon occasionally during the 20 minute period. (the whitish (little bit brownish) stuff that comes out of the bag and goes in the water is what you want) Don't squeeze too much, because you might break the bag, in which case you would need to filter the water. You will not be getting all of the whitish stuff out of the pulp. Don't try too hard. Realize that the more you squeeze and push and the longer the extraction proceeds, the more of the stuff you don't will be getting in along with the good stuff. Shorter and less intense extractions produce cleaner results, but also weaker results. Just use more seeds to make up for the loss of efficiency. You see, it is a function of time. The more water soluble things will be dissolved in a shorter time than the less-soluble. The LSA is the most water soluble compound in the seeds. If you extract for days or weeks, you will likely also have dissolved other nasties that go into solution much less rapidly. The temperature of the water is also a factor. Colder water dissolves things slower and therefore limits the extraction better to favor LSA. DO NOT USE HOT WATER. Heat also destroys LSA, as does intense light.)

Once you have extracted the stuff into the water, discard bags, and drink the water. It tastes a little better if you add sugar at this point, in my opinion. It is pretty nasty though. I guess there is always a price to pay for a tour of your unconscious mind.

Once you have finished drinking the nasty water, control your thoughts. Stay positive and optimistic. Smile. Cultivate a sense of love for everything and feeling of reverence and respect for the chemical. Avoid TV. TV is the source for a lot of negative suggestions that can cause a bad trip. If you have any suicidal thoughts, SHUT THEM OFF! Tell yourself, "NO, I refuse to think along those lines!" "I love myself!" Arrest any negative thought loops before you spiral down into hell. Listen to positive music. DO NOT LISTEN TO THINGS LIKE NIN. Negative, doom music will lead you to doom in this vulnerable state. If all you have is negative music, you are probably so depressed or angry that you shouldn't use these drugs anyway. If you are a nihilistic type, or if you have suicidal or psychotic tendencies, stay far away from any psychedelic drug! I find that a good setting is nature, especially in good weather. You must be isolated from unfriendly, misunderstanding people, though, because their presence will make you paranoid. If you are in a place where you feel you could get caught, it is the wrong place!

In short, solubility is a function of the polarity of the molecule (LSA is the most polar compound in the seeds), the temperature of the water (higher temp means things will dissolve faster), the quantity of the water, and the amount of time for the extraction. If the water is very pure, cold, and in a moderately small amount, and is not allowed to spend too much time working on the seed mush, the extraction will yield a fairly clean product. Ideally, you will have the LSA and similar compounds and water only. But, the more you limit the extraction through small quantity of water and cold temperature and short time, the less efficient your ratio of the number of seeds to potency of solution will be. I have found that a good method (a compromise between efficiency and purity) is the one above.

Be careful! Don't do it if it feels wrong. If you are in a less-than-ideal mood, and/or the setting is not ideal, don't do it! You will regret it! You must approach these things with great care! Do NOT underestimate the power of any psychedelic for wreaking havoc on your psychological well-being. If you approach it with the proper set/setting, it will be kind to you. If you laugh at it or don't take it seriously or think, "wussies, I can handle it," it will show you just what a wussie you are! Have some humility! Psychedelics do not take well to arrogance. They will show you who is boss.

When you have a fairly pure extract, the positivity or negativity of the experience will be a function of your attitude and your choice of setting. It will not be a function of the chemical. Even the best and purest stuff can cause hell in the wrong brain. If you find that every time you use something like this, that it just plain sucks, stay the hell away! You are not ready. You may never be ready.

Many just don't have the tools to face themselves, and some are just so full of bad things in their minds that psychedelics serve only to unleash their myriad demons. Whatever is in your unconscious will rise when you open it. These chEmicals are keys to your unconscious. If your unconscious is a house of horrors, maybe you don't want to go inside, eh? Do you have any skeletons in your closet? Is your mind a Pandora's Box? If so, think twice! If those demons are manageable, the drug will let them out so you can battle them, and will serve as a catalyst for healing and growth. If you have an army of demons in there, please get professional help and leave drugs alone, okay? Once you've done some serious work, then come back, but only if it feels right.

[aphextwin]

LSA (Ergine, La-111)
Lysergic Acid amides can be extracted from Baby Hawaiian Wood Rose seeds or Morning Glory seeds. To my knowledge, the LSA content in BHWR seeds is of a ratio of 10/1 to Morning Glory seeds. This ratio does not pertain to weight, but means that 10 Morning Glory seeds equals 1 BHWR seed in LA-111 content. The seeds are ground and soaked in a non-polar solvent (500 ml) for 20 minutes. The solution is filtered and the solvent is discarded. The seed mush is evaporated fully and then soaked in one of the above mentioned alcohols for 3 days. The solution is filtered and the alcohol is evaporated. What is left is put into gelatin capsules.

from Lycaeum>Leda>kitchen chemistry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok.. thats all I could find on it, but I have read somewhere that LSA is not very water soluable and that the shit that makes you puke is, so if you first do a wash with water, then drink what's left you get a very clean high, I even went to so far as to have a dream where this occured, and it worked quite well, full-on OEVs with no nausea, so... I guess I beg to differ

[aphextwin]

beautiful advice for the tripping though, karma brownies

[aphextwin]

I think we need to know what the poisenous compound here is before we can have this argument

[hermes]

First of all, I have never seen any literature that tells exactly what the undesireable stuff is (the nonpolar part), and I am unsure if anyone even knows. If anyone has seen a reference on this, please give it. I would very much like to know what it is. I do know, however, that the more I limit my extracts to the most polar compounds, the cleaner the experience is. I have used impure extracts that made me vomit and gave cramps and headache and tunnel vision and poor psychedelic quality. Also, if you study the differences between the trip reports of those who filter and use polar extracts and those who eat all, you will see that better experiences go with more polar extracts.

I will go dig up my MERCK reference on the lysergic acid compounds and scan and post it here. I just need to find it. I have a xerox copy from my college library's MERCK reference laying around here somewhere!

In the meantime, read what can be found through these links:

 http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory.shtml

 http://leda.lycaeum.org/Chemicals/LSA.163.shtml

Notice this quote from the MG FAQ:

"An alternative processing method occured to me since writing the FAQ in light of the apparent current difficulty in obtaining petroleum ether:


1. Proceed with a water extraction from the seed meal: Soak the meal in water and then filter off the water with a coffee filter, discarding the filter and solid matter, keeping the water."

The FAQ is here:
 http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory_faq.shtml
 http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Prohibition/Drug%20Information/Morning%20Glory/Ipomoea%20Purpurea


Read all of this stuff (follow the links) at erowid and lycaeum on MG seeds. There is some decent info there.  

Also, notice the picture they show of the molecular structure of LSA. Do you see the assymetric structure of the molecule? Do you see the nitrogen molecules and the oxygen up toward the top of the picture? (red=O, blue=N, white=H, grey=C) The electronegativity differences between O and C and between N and C result in a seperation of charge, meaning that one end of a bond has a greater affinity for electrons and thus a partial negative charge. This seperation of charge is not cancelled by symmetry in the molecule, so the whole molecule has an unequal distribution of electron density. This means that the molecule acts like a dipole, kind of like a compass needle. Water, too, has this quality of polarity. Polar molecules can bond more strongly than nonpolar molecules, meaning that a polar solvent will have a much greater affinity for a polar compound than it will for a nonpolar one. This means that polar compounds will dissolve in water, while nonpolar ones will not. Think of it like this, a molecule of water is polar, and has a much greater affinity for another water molecule than it does for a nonpolar molecule. For another compound to bond to water molecules, it has to break the strong bonds between water molecules in order to make room for a new bond to form. If the compound in question is nonpolar, it can bond only very weakly with water, and so is not strong enough give the water a reason to break bonds to bond with it. You are trying to exchange a strong bond for a weak one, and it does not work. If you had a spherical magnet, and it was magnetically connected with enough other spherical magnets to cover its surface, and say you brought a glass marble into contact with the outer magnets, would those outer magnets drop off and make room for the marble to bond with the central magnet, without you forcing it? No, they wouldn't budge, which is very much the same reason a piece of wax will not dissolve in water. Wax is nonpolar, as is oil and most lubricants.

Take a little gasoline or Coleman fuel and put it in a container full of water. What do you observe? They will seperate into distinct layers, with the denser water layer at bottom. You see, organic solvents like these are hydrocarbons, composed of only carbon and hydrogen, and have no significant seperation of charge anywhere in the molecule. They do not contain O or F or N or any other fairly electronegative elements.

Now try the same thing, except using alcohol instead of gasoline or Coleman fuel. See that they mix? This is because alcohol is polar, having assymetry and an oxygen atom, and thus a seperation of charge. Ethanol is C2OH6. A common nonpolar substance is butane. Try mixing that with water. It's chemical formula is C4H10.

Notice that the solvent discarded in the reference you gave is the nonpolar one and that the solvent kept is the polar one (and mixes with water). Are you starting to see it?

Here is an intersting polar/nonpolar tidbit for you. Have you ever noticed how water runs in sheets on clean glass, and has very little tendency to bead up? But when you put wax on it, suddenly the water will make tight beads. Why? Well, it's because glass is somewhat polar, and has an affinity for water. The surface tension of water will break in order for water to increase the amount of surface area in contact with the glass. Water has no affinity for wax, and thus minimizes its surface area, which maximizes the number of water-water bonds and minimizes water-wax bonds. It is not that water is repelled by wax, but rather that water likes itself more than it likes wax.

Have you ever tried to clean grease with rubbing alcohol? It doesn't work very well, does it? Try it with gasoline or butane! That works much better!

You see, soap or detergent will wash off grease because it has a polar end and a nonpolar end, meaning it acts as a mediator between the two. It can connect with both a water molecule and a grease molecule. It takes grease where it normally cannot go.

I have the PLants of the Gods book by Shultes and Hoffmann (Hoffmann discovered LSD, you know). I'll scan the MG pages and post them here shortly. The shamans used cold water extractions, drinking the water! Hoffmann reports this.

Give me until tomorrow. I'll prepare absolute proof for you that the stuff you want is in the water. Some will remain behind, and this is likely what you got in your experience. You must be tougher than the other nasties, or else you had some seeds with very little nasties in them.

By the way, if the good stuff was nonpolar as you suggest it is, to use the method you quoted would require that you discard the alcohol and drink the nonpolar solvent, which would be very dangerous! DO NOT EVER DRINK ANY NONPOLAR SOLVENTS! THIS IS VERY, VERY BAD! Many of them contain benzene, which is highly carcinogenic and is specifically a leukemogen. Do you like the idea of leukemia? If so, drink benzene. Otherwise, stay the hell away from nonpolar stuff when it comes to things you are ingesting.

[hermes]

RDG, have you noticed that LSA is an acronym for Lysergic Acid Amide? Do you know what an amide is? It is an organic compound that has that functional group with nitrogen and oxygen that I pointed out to you. Notice the similarity between "amide" and "ammonia?" Notice that ammonia is water soluble? Ammonia is NH3. Most any amide is water soluble. Notice how on a SOBE bottle, how it might contain taurine or yohimbine or other "-ine" compounds? These are amines, which are also polar and contain N and get the "am-" in amine from ammonia. They are dissolved in water, which forms the basic solvent that is mostly what SOBE is composed if. Notice caffeine in your coffee? What you did with MG seeds is akin to brewing coffee by running much water through the grounds and then discarding the water and eating the grounds! Not much caffeine left!

[hermes]

Here's another reference:
 

The seeds are not ingested whole--they are not active in this form (Kinross-Wright 1959; B.P. Reko 1934). They are ground to a fine powder, which is then steeped for several hours in cold water, after which the solid matter is filtered off and discarded. The liquid is then drunk neat or with juice for flavoring." (Ott Pharmacotheon 1993, pg. 140)

This is from  http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsa/lsa_dose.shtml

[hermes]

Another:

"http://www.de-sjamaan.nl/en/9806_Morning_Glory_Seeds_(Exploring_LSA_-_Ipomoea_Violacea).html#9806"

[ghoo]

The unwanted compounds in HBWS is Cyanogenic Glycosides.

Cyanogenic Glycosides transforms into Cyanide in the human body.

ghoo

[pineal]

you're the fuckin man hermes. right on.
Bottom line, experience has told us LSA is water soluble. We would not be tripping if LSA wasn't. And hermes, your method's hitting it right on the fuckin head my friend.
I've taken some hawaiian woodrose seeds, ground them and soaked them in naptha for a few days, took the ground out and evaporated all the naptha out, then soaked them in denatured alcohol for another coupla days, evaporated it all off, left with greyish-brown flaky-shardy crystals that did indeed produce a good clean trip.
pineal

[highbred]

Man Sullen, what a horrible experience!  Hasn't your mom gotten suspicious at all?  I've never tried LSA as I've found other means to the spirit world.  I was wondering from any veteran trippers, is LSA even worth it if say someone (SWIM) has access to mushrooms or even Lucy?  Does LSA compare to these other substances in quality?

[pineal]

I'll just say if you prepare it right, LSA has a whole lot to offer. Lots of insight, great visuals...it's definitely something everyone who likes psychadelics should try at least once. But to each their own.
pineal

[aphextwin]

per your reccomended reading:So the idea is to first make a nonpolar solution, which of course means that you take a nonpolar solvent and soak the ground up seeds in it. The result is a solution of garbage from the seeds and the nonpolar solvent. Petroleum is a nonpolar solvent, so it will function in this capacity. The down side is that petroleum is poisonous, so you don't want to drink it. The good news is that petroleum is extremely volatile, so it evaporates quickly and cleanly. So the first stage is to soak the ground up seeds in petroleum ether for a few days, and then filter the resulting cloudy solution through some coffee filters, throw away the solution, and keep the seed mush. The seed mush consists of nondisolved LSA's, fiber, and the remaining solution that didn't drip through the filter. This part can be iterated to get more and more garbage out of the mush. The final time, let the seed mush dry thoroughly so that the petroleum evaporates so that you don't have any poison in there.

read that carefully, need I say more? to whoever that was that said"bottom line experiance tells us that LSA is water soluable we woulden't be tripping if it weren't" apparently you just think your tripping  

[aphextwin]

highbred, this guy: : would go with LSA over lucy.

[hermes]

RDJ, yes, this is correct, but incomplete. Once you have removed the nonpolar nasties from the seeds, then you soak the mush in a polar solvent (water or alcohol) and then filter and trash the mush, keeping the polar solution. This you can drink or evaporate to leave behind the good stuff, which can then be eaten, put in capsules, whatever.

Or, (much simpler and more effective and cheaper and less time consuming and less tisky since organic solvents are not involved) as I have pointed out endlessly, you can skip the whole pet ether crap and just do a simple water extraction in which the seed powder is soaked in water and then filtered to yield an LSA rich aqueous solution. The nonpolar stuff WILL NOT dissolve in the water and will not leave the mush. The mush must be discarded. Got it?

RDJ, are you just being stubborn in not admitting when you are wrong, or are you really that slow? No offense, I just wonder...

You grant the nonpolar part without granting the OBVIOUS polar water solution part! Why? Do you still disagree with me? I could demonstrate this step by step with diagrams and everything if you need it, but frankly I think it is a waste of time. I have already spent enough time arguing with you about this and any mildly sentient being can see that what I am saying is true, so I no longer fear that others will take your silly advice. I guess, if you refuse to learn from others who know more than you, you'll just have to remain ignorant and continue not reaping the rewards of personal progress. It is your choice. I am done with this. It is obvious that the more I push my proof, the more you'll ignore it, and the more stubborn and stupid you'll become.

If you keep giving bad advice, I'll be forced to continue making a fool out of you until you give up and go home (I have better things to do), or else I will have to enlist the aid of the management in removing you so that you do not harm someone with your imbecility. Some people who know nothing come here for advice in preparation methods. I hate to give them something I fear they are often unable to handle, but we must give them good information, since correct methods are less likely to cause harm than incorrect methods or reckless experimentation.

Anyone with any chemistry knowledge can see that what I am saying is correct. Come on people, back me up! If we can get a consensus agreement that RDJ is wrong, maybe he will shut up and quit misleading people. I provided references to most of the online information on the subject and it agrees with what I am saying. Is RDJ right and EVERYONE ELSE, including Ott and Shultes and Hoffmann, all wrong? I don't think so! RDJ is disputing hundreds of years of chemistry and physics research with his silly claim that he refuses to withdraw.

I've said enough! I am starting to get pissed about this, which is something that rarely happens!

BTW, Thanks Pineal! You know what's up!

[irimias]

I'm with you, Hermes. I'm not a skilled theoretical chemist, but from confrontation between so many online documents the evidence strongly supports your statements.
Richard, it seems that you're supposed to surrender. Next time you're going to ingest some seeds, try the cold water extraction and take notes on the subjective differences with your previous trips.

[pineal]

hermes, you're absolulte right, but there's no point in name-calling. He's not accepting the hoards of information you've provided, granted, but let's stay civil here at least.
pineal

[leafblowerz]

Maybe we should cover the proper extraction techniques with the rose wood seeds next?  Heheh.

Then the drug kicked in.  I wasn't just visiting the zoo, I was the zoo.

Leaf

[prolixity]

How does LSA fare with heat?

Any way to convert a coffee-maker (there's probably a better term for that machine...but I'm stupid today) into an LSA infusor?

prolix

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

doesn't heat kill lsa?

[aphextwin]

ok, perhaps I am insane, is water polar or non polar? I am not looking at anything, but something tells me that H2o would be nonpolar.. unless.... oh shit, are the oxygens off by themselves? if they are, I apologize, I foolishly assumed that water was nonpolar without ever looking it up.