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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Visionary Chemicals (Moderator: 2a)Topic:
 RESEARCH CHEMICAL Evaluation Thread (Get Your Serious Information Here)

[2a]

i though maybe we could all list our favourite RC's and summarize the chems for others. the letter that appears after the chemical name is its rating on the DOSRS Scale.

5-MeO-DMT (A+): extremely intense even at lower doses. creates a feeling of the body disintregrating (sp?) at the molecular level. most experiences are extremely ecstatic and blissful, but it is much too intense to use regularly. insufflating is the prefered method if you feel like enduring the burn.

5-MeO-AMT (D): this one is strange, it seems that either you trip on it and have a great time with negligable body load, or you don't trip much and feel like shit. this is an interesting, but not too intriguing chem. i don't like it much because of the dysphoria early on, and also it lasts so damn long and causes a headache. this chemical really feels slightly toxic; it produces no insights, and seems to be somewhat anxious.

2C-I (A): interesting, but no too profound. its definitely a social-drug. really, the best way i can explain it is "2C-E lite". it feels much like 2c-e, but isn't as deep and with milder visuals. it produces a general euphoria and increased empathy, but its still easy to go within. the visuals are melty with that "persian-carpet" feel, but unless you take a high dose its somewhat difficult for things to get wierd. its easy to go to sleep on this one, but you feel hungover and tired the next day. body load is negligable, with ever-so-minor nausea early on.

2C-E (A+): the holy grail. this is my favourite as of yet. its extremely deep and introspective with wonderful visuals and a great euphoria with increased empathy. this is a great tool for meditation and can also be a wonderful conversation-enhancer to add a new level to your thoughts. this shit does have the potential to get wierd, so don't do too much too fast. body load is less than 2C-I. sleep comes difficult up to seven or eight hours after ingestion, but no hangover the next day.

DOC (A+): so much mileage from so little material! comes in waves, ...no, psunamis. totally immersive, powerful, and euphoric. major visuals including trails, and light seemed to be glowing on higher dimensions. it seemed as though the light was emanating light. one can really feel the dopamine/amphetamine aspect of it, pure energy and nice euphoria. no real cosmic insights, but very good for personal insights. one can connect very well with nature and other people. it is very exhausting, though; after so many hours of so much intensity, it really wears one down. sleep is not the most restful afterwards, either. but this is a wonderful chemical to start on early in the day and go 'til sundown!

5-MeO-MiPT (Moxy):  A

The term "tryptamine roll" has been used several times to describe this compound, and i'm going to echo it again here.  there is definitely a strong body component to this compound, and it is all pleasant.  no negative body load was detected.  some visual distortions are present, particularly in the perception of distal space with light taking on new qualities.  this substance seems to act as a sensory enhancer, increasing and potentiating the signal from the sensory organs.  it does have a tendency to be energizing, but also relaxing; in other words, there is no push from the chemical, but walking is very pleasing.

smoked is not much different than oral excpept for the faster comeup.

suggested combos: 2C-I/2C-E; 5-MeO-DMT (smoked)/Ayahuasca; pot/5-MeO-AMT; wine with the 2C's will decrease anxiety and muscle-tension, 2C-E/Moxy

[gorfehttimrek]

I have found that 2C-E and 2C-I can be interchanged for me.  I have not conducted a "double-blind" study persay, but do not find considerable differences in these two.  The 2C-E is slightly more potent so less is required.  

I am on the other hand a VERY hard head when it comes to tripping and blame this on some earlier experiences with much more LSD than one should normally consume.  Since those days I have found it difficult to be AS content with the same dosage as my friends are.

This has, on the other hand, allowed me to research on larger doses of ce and ci.  I found that they are very very alike in effects, with the ci being slightly less potent and slightly more "colorful" in visuals.  The ce CAN produce visuals just as colorful but tends to draw one towards the "mental" aspect of the trip more.

Now, we come to my favorite 4-HO-DET.  It has a VERY definite "trip" to it, but is very short lived.  A 30 min. peak and a 4-5 hour overall effect.  It comes on quick and seems to end just as fast.  

As for combo's I've only ever combined 2C-E with 4-HO-DET.  I assume from the research that it would combine in a similiar way with ci.  I have NEVER experienced both at the same time.  I have however followed a 2C-E peak with 4-HO-DET.  For about 2-3 hours, the experience was just like LSD, with the body and visuals of 2C-E combined with the "head trip" of the DET.  The dosage was lower than with either alone.  I DO NOT recommend combo's however, since many here have pointed out, the CE is a full fledged psychedelic and can stand alone in that capacity.  Many people have been "overwhelmed" by that one alone.  

Unfortunately, my days of research are over it would seem.  To bad, as there were many more I would like to have had the chance to research.

For now, I will have to settle for passing on my knowledge and doing what I can to prevent misuse by some and helping to encourage responsibilty in others.  This is one reason why the Lycaeum exists.

Kermit

[Applerod]

Here's a combination I recommend:
5-Meo-/DMT and Salvia.  That really kicks things up to the next level.  I'll write a report sometime.  It's extraordinary.

[computergod]

How exactly would you combine salvia and 5meo-dmt? You can't smoke them both at the same  time. Would you smoke them both in rapid succession? IV them? Snort the DMT then smoke the salvia?

[Atman00]

You could just sprinkle the 5-meO on top of a salvia bowl. Or as you suggest, quickly do both out of preloaded pipes & I kind of like the sniff/smoke method idea. Here's some cool stories from D.M. Turner. Though he uses n,n & salvia.
 http://www.lavondyss.com/donut/j9.html

[Applerod]

Yea, just sprinkle some of the Meo on a bowl of salvia.  Do not contact the flame with the Meo (you want to see it melt); inhale slowly.

[Atman00]

Inhale slowly...BLAST OFF  

[DPP]

Kermit -

 

quote

This has, on the other hand, allowed me to research on larger doses of ce and ci. I found that they are very very alike in effects, with the ci being slightly less potent and slightly more "colorful" in visuals. The ce CAN produce visuals just as colorful but tends to draw one towards the "mental" aspect of the trip more.

I couldn't agree more.  Also - 2-CE seemed to last an extra two hours or so, giving it a more gradual tapering off.  Sleep was also a bit harder to come by with the 2-CE, IMO.

[illuminati boy]

Categorical & Statistical Analysis of Side-Effects Reported in a Blue Light Thread.

{OK The Cliff Notes Version of the introduction. This writer analyzed 145 reports by persons who have used multiple ‘research chemicals’ multiple times and discussed them in the context of possible side-effects. There is likely a bias to the negative, and the sample is still small, but the data should be relevant to the title of this thread, namely RC Evaluation. If this thread gets long enough this writer will do the same type of analysis here.}

This writer analyzed available data as posted in
this thread on Bluelight from its inception up to 12 AM EST 9/11/2005. This is in the hopes of contributing additional information about Research Chemicals (RCs). While the data will likely be skewed to the negative given the report bias in this thread and the lack of consistent terminology, it is hoped that an overview of side effects could prove beneficial for persons considering investigating RCs. Given the data available here, a semi-representative sample might exist to educate persons who might have limited data about possible side effects and/or complications. In the interest of harm reduction and the free flow information this data is presented for your information.


The methods employed were simple. A single investigator rated the self repots on this thread according to the following categories: Drug; Stimulation (uncomfortable &/or unwanted); Sedation/Lethargy (uncomfortable &/or unwanted); Mild Headaches (&/or infrequent); Severe Headaches (&/or Migraines &/or Severe or Consistent); After Effects Brief (hours to a few days post ingestion); After Effects Prolonged (1 week+ &/or Severe after effects); HPPD (Self Report); GI Disturbance (Nausea, Stomach Awareness, Stomach Discomfort w/o actual report of vomiting or diarrhea); Diarrhea (&/or other defecation problems/incontinence); Anorexia/Vomiting; Numbness &/or Tingling (Acute or Unspecified); Numbness &/or Tingling (Persistent &/or Severe); Delirium, Confusion, &/or Disassociation; Amnesia; Trisma/Jaw Issues, Nystagmus/Eye Issues; Temperature Change/Teeth Chattering; Sweating; Muscle Tension/Discomfort/Stiffness; Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor; Convulsions; Breathing Problems; Other/Severe. 145 reports covering 25 different RCs were analyzed. The agent in question is presented along with the 5 most commonly reported side-effects as well as the % of persons explicitly reporting no side-effects and the number of persons reporting on this thread that were included in the analysis. Agents reported on in this thread include: 2C-B, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, 2C-T-21, TC-T-4, TC-T-7, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-DIPT, 4-AcO-MIPT, 4-Floro-Amphetamine, 4-HO-DIPT, 4-HO-MIPT, 5-MeO-AMT, 5-MeO-DIPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-MIPT, AMT, DIPT, DPT, IAP, MBDB, & Methylone (MDMCAT).

2C-B: The report included here listed no side effects. Additional information about this compound is clearly available elsewhere as it is really no longer a ‘research chemical’ in the same sense as many of the others.

2C-C: 7 Reports. 43% reported Migraine &/or Severe Headaches; 14% reported After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; 14% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; & 57% reported No Side-Effects. The instances of headaches may be dose-dependent, possible becoming more likely in doses greater than 40 mg. or so.

2C-D: 5 Reports. 20% reported Sedation &/or Lethargy (Uncomfortable/Unwanted); 20% reported After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; 20% reported Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension; 60% reported No Side-Effects. Appears to be very mild in lower doses. In actual clinical research settings the compound was evaluated in doses significantly over 100 mg. or used in much smaller amounts to extend the action of other drugs.

2C-E: 15 Reports. 27% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 20% reported Stimulation &/or Body Energy (Uncomfortable/Unwanted); 20% reported Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension; 13% reported Trisma/Jaw Issues; & 7% reported each of the following: Sedation &/or Lethargy (Uncomfortable/Unwanted); After Effects Prolonged; Diarrhea; Temperature Change &/or Teeth Chattering; and Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor. 33% reported No Side Effects. Very frequently reported to be one of the most powerful research chemicals either in terms of visual or psychological effects.

2C-I: 24 Reports. 54% reported Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); 38% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 29% reported Headache (Sometimes &/or Mild); 29% reported Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension; & 25% reported After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days. Some discussion of blood coagulation issues (questionable). HPPD reported. This compound has possibly been circulating in ‘ecstasy’ pills in Europe and elsewhere.

2C-T-2: 12 Reports. 58% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 25% reported Anorexia/Vomiting; 17% reported Migraine &/or Severe Headaches; 17% Temperature Change &/or Teeth Chattering; & 17% reported Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension. 17% reported No Side Effects. The reports of GI disturbance / Nausea are often marked. Reportedly a very powerful psychedelic in terms of ‘primary effects.’

2C-T-21: 6 Reports. 50% reported Trisma/Jaw Issues; 17% Headache (Sometimes &/or Mild); 17% reported After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; 17% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; & 17% reported Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension. Caution, possible serious abreactions / deaths reported from this compound.

2C-T-4: 1 Report. 100% reported Delirium, Confusion, &/or Disassociation.

2C-T-7: 2 Reports. Both reported No Side Effects. Additional information available elsewhere about this one, but Caution should be used as possible serious abreactions / deaths have been reported from this compound.

4-AcO-DET: 6 Reports. 33% reported Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); 33 % reported Temperature Change &/or Teeth Chattering; 33% reported Sweating; 33% reported Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor; 17% reported each of the following: Migraine &/or Severe Headaches; After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; GI disturbance &/or Nausea; Diarrhea; Numbness &/or Tingling (Acute or Unspecified); Delirium, Confusion, &/or Disassociation; & Trisma/Jaw Issues. 33% reported No Side Effects. 4-HO-DET was evaluated in clinical settings and found to have a generally favorable side-effect profile. There have been several reports of muscle twitches or tremors especially of the legs.

4-AcO-DIPT: 3 Reports. 67% reported Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); 67% reported Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor; 33% reported Headache (Sometimes &/or Mild); 33% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; & 33 % reported Diarrhea.

4-AcO-MIPT: 3 Reports. All reported No significant Side Effects.

4-Flouro-Amphetamine: 1 Report. 100% reported Temperature Change &/or Teeth Chattering.

4-HO-DIPT: 7 Reports. 29% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 14% reported each of the following: Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); Sedation &/or Lethargy (Uncomfortable/Unwanted); GI disturbance &/or Nausea; Trisma/Jaw Issues; Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension; & Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor. 29% reported No significant Side Effects. This appears to be a compound that some people really get nothing out of, while others report quite glowing effects from. Usually of very brief duration (3-5 hours), but for some small subset it can last considerably longer (10+ hours).

4-HO-MIPT: 2 Reports. 50% reported Headache (Sometimes &/or Mild) & GI disturbance &/or Nausea. 50% reported No significant Side Effects. Appears to be a very intense compound similar in character to mushrooms, but possibly incorporating more simulation / ‘body energy.’

5-MeO-AMT: 9 Reports. 67% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 67% reported Anorexia/Vomiting; 44% reported After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; 33% reported each of the following: Headache (Sometimes &/or Mild); Migraine &/or Severe Headaches; & Diarrhea. Hospitalizations and lingering effects reported. Caution should be used as possible serious abreactions / deaths have been reported from this compound. (It is known with certainty that 5-MeO-AMT was listed as COD on at least one death cert.)

5-MeO-DIPT: 5 Reports. 40% reported After Effects Prolonged (1 week+ &/or Severe after effects); 40% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 20% reported each of the following: Migraine &/or Severe Headaches; After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; Diarrhea; Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension; & Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor. Note: 60% reported some sort of after-effects. Specifically the reports were regarding longer-term visual changes. One report of 1 month+ and one report of 1 year+ lingering visual phenomena. For some (possibly especially males) can act as a very significant sexual enhancer.

5-MeO-DMT: 12 Reports. 33% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 25% reported Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); 25% reported Delirium, Confusion, &/or Disassociation; 17% related each of the following: Headache (Sometimes &/or Mild); After Effects Prolonged (1 week+ &/or Severe after effects); & Sweating. 25% related No significant Side Effects. Reportedly an incredibly intense compound. Some persons report substantial visions, while others report none at all.

5-MeO-MIPT: 2 Reports. 50% reported Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); & After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days.

AMT: 8 Reports. 75% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 38% reported Stimulation (Uncomfortable &/or Unwanted); 38% reported After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; 25% reported each of the following: Delirium, Confusion, &/or Disassociation; & Nystagmus/Eye Issues. Hospitalizations and very rough experiences reported. Some clinical trials of this were done in the 1960’s.

DIPT: 5 Reports. 60% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 20% reported each of the following: After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; & Diarrhea. Several reported tinnitus &/or other ear/auditory effects. 20% reported No significant Side Effects.

DPT: 9 Reports. 33% reported GI disturbance &/or Nausea; 22% reported Minor Muscle Twitching/Tremor; 11% reported each of the following: After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; Temperature Change &/or Teeth Chattering; & Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension. Some variability in reported effect and nasty drip when insufflated. Either IM administration or smoking of this compound can lead to incredibly intense effects. For some it is easily one of the most intense and visual compound there is.

IAP: 1 Report. 100% reported Dizziness. Generally stimulation is reported from taking this agent.

MBDB: 1 Report. 100% reported: After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; Trisma/Jaw Issues; & Nystagmus/Eye Issues. Reportedly similar to MDMA, but also quite different as well.

Methylone: 3 Reports. 33% reported each of the following: After Effects Mild &/or a Few Days; GI disturbance &/or Nausea; Nystagmus/Eye Issues; & Muscle Ache/Stiffness/Tension. Most included highly favorable comments. Seems to be well liked/tolerated as long as one does not burp.

Due to the inconsistent terminology, subjective judgment had to be employed regarding the above categories. While some judgments appeared straight forward (i.e. "eye-wiggles" being directly equivalent to "Nystagmus"), others were more open to alternate interpretation ("quite possibly the most toxic chem I've ever put into my body" which categories are checked here?). Also the categories do not always catch the flavor of a report such as simply putting ' flatulence' when the report was " flatulent on a par with the cowboys in the beans scene of "Blazing Saddles."" Also, due to the small number of reports above, broad generalizations should not be made. Note that if one were simply to go on the reports here, 2C-T-7 appears to be a clean/safe agent; when obviously there are real risks to treating it as all-forgiving. Still certain trends are evident, such as 2C-I tending to induce notable stimulation, both 5-MeO-AMT & AMT possibly having a concerning tendency regarding body load and potential hospitalization, 5-MeO-DIPT having lingering effects, and DIPT having audio after effects. Also all reports were not included as some did not give enough specifics and/or made broad generalizations (i.e. discussing tryptamines or phens generally). It is hoped that this information (which took some time to compile/produce) might be of some benefit to others on this forum.

I B

--------------------

Before posting in VC, ask yourself have you thought of trying any of these first? Search the Forums, Erowid, Google, Erowid’s Big Chart, PiHKAL, TiHKAL, Erowid’s Research Chemicals FAQ, or Bluelight’s Big & Dandy Thread Index.

I B, Mod VC

“Any free man or woman who resides in any community where this {religious ecstasy obtained through drugs or alcohol} is verboten has a choice between two duties: insurrection and immigration.” Aleister Crowley 'The Law is for All'

[illuminati boy]

One thing that might help in making subjective comparisons about various Research Chemicals would be to rate them in contrast to one’s overall drug experience. Below is a scale that I whipped up a few months back. It is designed to help one communicate their overall subjective rating of a materials worth. If say LSD were ones absolute ‘favorite’ or deemed to be the ‘best’ it would rate an A+. IF say 5-MeO-AMT put you in the hospital it would rate an F. If for you Methylone (MDMCAT) was worthwhile but not one of your favorites it would rate a B. If everyone puts such a rating next to any compounds they discuss, as well as a description of the positive, negative, and neutral effects of each agent; we should have a nice little thread here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOSRS (Drug Overall Subjective Rating Scale) (pronounced “doser’s”).


ABSTRACT: The DOSRS (Drug Overall Subjective Rating Scale) is a new, compact, way to rate the overall subjective effects of a chemical agent that one has ingested. Specifically the DOSRS is a scale to rate one’s overall subjective value assessment of an ingested material (i.e. how much one ‘liked it’).


I here present the DOSRS (Drug Overall Subjective Rating Scale, pronounced “doser’s”) 7-value assessment. It is an item designed to convey one’s overall subjective rating of a chemical agent that one has ingested. While there are currently several accepted scales that can roughly quantify overall level of drug effect, no scale in regular use relates the subject’s overall personal judgment of a material’s worth.

Two employments of the DOSRS are possible. It can be used to rate a 1-time experience of a chemical agent in comparison to ones life-experiences and preferences or it can be used as a retrospective summary of multiple ingestions of a given compound.

METHOD: After having ingested a chemical compound and completely returned to ‘baseline’ from the acute effects of an agent, an individual selects the one of the 7 items that best represents his/her overall assessment of the material (either for a single ingestion or for one’s overall experiences with the agent). The scale is as follows:

OVERALL RATING OF THE DRUG (Choose Only One):

A+ (Best Chemical Ever Ingested, absolute favorite)
A (Very Good, one of my favorites, would recommend to others)
B (Worthwhile Material, likely would do it again)
C (Nothing Special, might do it again)
D (Disliked, likely would not do it again)
E (Very Bad Side-Effects &/or No Worthwhile Effects, would tell others to avoid)
F (Severe Adverse Reaction, hospitalization, seizure, HPPD, etc.)

The scale can be used as a single score (A+, A, B, C, D, E, F,) to communicate one’s personal valuation of the agent to others, or it can be converted to numerical data and summed with other reports to give an average of the subjective scores.

To convert to a numerical score, the following values are assigned: A+ = 6, A = 5, B = 4, C = 3, D = 2, E = 1, & F = 0. So for instance, the average of a report of “A” (5) and a report of “C” (3) would be: 4, giving one an average rating of “B.”

DISCUSSION: While several scales exist to roughly quantify the overall level of effects of a drug (Shulgin Rating Scale , The Level System of Graeme Carl, etc.), they do not necessarily convey how well one ‘liked’ the drug experience overall. Using the Shulgin Rating Scale as an example: one could have a +++ experience that is truly grueling and draining or one could have a +++ experience that is truly pleasurable and rewarding. In either case the +++ only denotes the intensity of a specific experience, not ones subjective evaluation of the material's worth. Also, as with the specific scales mentioned above, most scales are generally geared toward quantifying the effects of a specific ingestion/experience. The DOSRS allows for a better way to quantify overall rating retrospectively as well.

LEGAL: To the best of this writer’s knowledge at this time, this is a unique scale developed by this writer, with input and assistance of gloggawogga from Bluelight. It is free to use by all so long as they do not claim authorship or charge anyone else to use it.

Illuminati Boy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok with the big words aside… I hope people might be able to use this scale to give a rough approximation of their view of a chemical compound to others. If someone says compound X is an A material or B material etc. people have a general idea what that means. It should allow for a better way to compare and contrast 2 different compounds. It is not intended to replace the Shulgin scale, which is a common way of rating particular experiences / intensity of effects. It is a way to communicate one’s overall assessment of the agent after 1 or more trials. So take as an example 2C-B. One could have had some +, ++, & +++ experiences with the material. 2C-B is not “+ material” or “++ material,” those are only ways to describe intensity of effect for a particular encounter with the agent. Now one might call 2C-B “A+ material” and another may call it “C material,” but in either case it gives a more comprehensive picture how one values the material overall.

Hope this starts some discussion and I also hope to see some folks using this scale.

I B

[illuminati boy]

Ok in case the above posts did not signal it, lets try and keep this thread ‘on-track’ and use it as our repository for RC information. Lets try and keep it to a ‘just the facts’ thread for people to report experiences, data, and subjective evaluations. While usually this mod is pretty lax about use of the delete stick, consider this fair warning that in this one thread posts that stray of topic will quickly be euthanased.

Do feel free to report experiences, data, anecdotes, and subjective ratings about 1 or more of the so called ‘Research Chemicals.’ Please no more hotdog stand posts etc. in this thread.

OK?

I B

[Moo]

DIPT Rating -(A)

Would just like to highlight first that this chemical is one of the most powerful and emotional trips I have read about. Stopping deep, emotional thoughts was almost impossible. But, this is mostly about the "outside" effects with the body, and the "phsyical" aspect of symptoms with sight, hearing, touch/feel. The auditory hallucinations were extremely potent and long lasting, and the tryptamine shakes/body load was also very strong.

Auditory and bodily effects reported by 190lb Single white black white and candy striped male:

Oral HCl:
25mg- Come on 40 min. Fully present for another 10 hours. Not as noticable after 5 hours, but check the dial tone.

50mg-75mg Sounds distorted for at least 10 strong hours in several sessions. Trypatamine shakes strong at times, but enjoyable as hell.

100mg- Here lies, IMO, a type of dose response curve point where this dose and above this dose, a little more is very strong, or possibly that set and setting up to this point really gear the trip, or maybe that this is where toxicity starts to set in, or where 100mg is as enoyable, but not as strong as 2.

150mg- Very intense thought patterns forcing theirselves, possibly it feels "forced" because the tryptamine buzz is so strong that you feel numb and buzzing and vibrating hard. While this is, the sounds out of nowhere are just booming overhead and making you trip. Clangs and Wha's and echo's waning, voices that echo. Music was on during peak, and it was just garbled static sound, menacing thumps and barks and scratches. Sounds last for 24 hours+. Sounds are everything, no sound of its own, in silence. Tryptamine shakes very strong at times, but mostly enjoyable, hard at times. Awesome closed eyed visuals, and the max recreational dose IMO. A little nausea.

200-225mgs- Some uncomfortable feelings definately. Racey as hell, a definate "zonk" feeling, thoughts unclear, thick hard tracers. Not LSD tracers of flowing and star shaped whirlwind liquid, but straight hard electric lines on perimeters, like florescents on a restaurant, shifting randomly- chaotic, just pink and blue, and flanging. Racey head, racey mind, racey tracers, body racing and sweating.... then peak, where if you just look in the mirror in that 1/2 hour or hour time, you just look in the mirror and see your eyes huge and your pupils huge, eyes red, sweating, unfocusing, just say FUCK. No, its not a smooth peak like with acid, even a 7 or 800+mic trip peak would not feel as tough as this, as acid is much more forgiving, and drawn out as well. Auditory effects last in to the next day, most of the day perhaps. Needed to be mellowed some, which works well if some opium acetic rewash was smoked, just a couple hits, like ONE. DXM at the 100 and 300mg range was also found to make less body load ie nausea and shakes, but increased the mental aspect, while causing small blackouts. Tremors and shakes becomes hard and scary, almost a seizure, body numb and painfully electrically shocking to the touch. Nausea.

275mg- One dose at this level, which made me want to stop drugs.

With hints of toxicity at 200-225mgs, its no suprise that these effects were heightened at a higher dose. Whats bad is that went higher, because much of this is present at lower doses.

Tremors were horrible, numb body, cold sweats, no thought pattern(can't think at all about where to direct thought, if were even able to), shaking awake/finding out you were just lying your head down, <---passing out, hard hard HARD to direct it, unlike with acid or even cubes, which are tough too. Scared that would fall asleep and be wandering for a long time. Hard to stay positive, and could possibly have been dangerous at higher levels, or even this level for most people.

Auditory effects just as confusing as with 150mgs, but less recognizable, lasted for 48+ hours, however slightly. Pressure in the ears, inability to hear self well enough to talk normally.... tinnutis(sp) lasted for a few days. All sounds are different to the point of alien... concentrating on the sounds are difficult as well, and can only be done some of the time.

As said on Erowid in one of the few reports, at least back then, "Being a musician, I had to try it".

I would recomend that if considering trying DiPT(diisopropyltryptamine), look at TiHKAL and read all the reports, and pay attention to all the things you cross along the way, and start at 25mg-50mg to get the feel, then go no higher than 150mg-200mgs for a maximum experience at least once.

-Moo

[illuminati boy]

An Analysis of Erowid Reports:

Below is an analysis of reports posted at Erowid up to 12:00PM EST 11.27.2005 covering a number of so called ‘Research Chemicals.’ The number of reports listed as ‘Glowing Experiences,’ ‘Mystical Experiences,’ ‘Difficult Experiences,’ & ‘Health Problems’ are all listed along with the percentage they make up of the total reports for the particular substance on Erowid. Also at the end is a ‘Quick Score’ that is the ratio of ‘good’ reports (Glowing + Mystical) to ‘bad’ reports (Difficult + Health Problems); a higher number should indicate a more favorable overall rating. None of the experience reports were read in detail for this analysis, only their already assigned placements at Erowid were used to score them. Hopefully though, the Quick Score (QS) should give quick, vital, comparison data when contrasting 1 compound with another, but be careful as the severity of adverse events is not controlled for.


2C-C: 34 Total Reports. 10 Glowing (29%), 0 Mystical (0%), 2 Difficult (6%), & 1 Health Problems (3%). QS 3.33

2C-D: 25 Total Reports. 2 Glowing (8%), 0 Mystical (0%), 3 Difficult (12%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 0.66

2C-E: 67 Total Reports. 12 Glowing (18%), 5 Mystical (7%), 11 Difficult (16%), & 1 Health Problems (1%). QS 1.42

2C-I: 186 Total Reports. 61 Glowing (33%), 9 Mystical (5%), 21 Difficult (11%), & 10 Health Problems (5%). QS 2.26

2C-T-2: 93 Total Reports. 20 Glowing (22%), 3 Mystical (3%), 17 Difficult (18%), & 6 Health Problems (6%). QS 1.00

2C-T-21: 13 Total Reports. 4 Glowing (31%), 0 Mystical (0%), 2 Difficult (15%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 2.00

2C-T-4: 13 Total Reports. 1 Glowing (8%), 0 Mystical (0%), 2 Difficult (15%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 0.50

2C-T-7: 195 Total Reports. 35 Glowing (18%), 6 Mystical (3%), 53 Difficult (27%), & 26 Health Problems (13%). QS 0.52

4-AcO-DET: 35 Total Reports. 3 Glowing (9%), 3 Mystical (9%), 8 Difficult (23%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 0.75

4-AcO-DIPT: 37 Total Reports. 6 Glowing (16%), 0 Mystical (0%), 3 Difficult (8%), & 2 Health Problems (5%). QS 1.20

4-HO-DIPT: 30 Total Reports. 6 Glowing (20%), 1 Mystical (3%), 4 Difficult (13%), & 2 Health Problems (7%). QS 1.17

4-HO-MIPT: 6 Total Reports. 0 Glowing (0%), 0 Mystical (0%), 0 Difficult (0%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS Error Can’t Divide by 0.

5-MeO-AMT: 84 Total Reports. 6 Glowing (7%), 1 Mystical (1%), 18 Difficult (21%), & 12 Health Problems (14%). QS 0.23

5-MeO-DALT: 10 Total Reports. 2 Glowing (20%), 0 Mystical (0%), 1 Difficult (10%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 2.00

5-MeO-DIPT: 231 Total Reports. 36 Glowing (16%), 4 Mystical (2%), 32 Difficult (14%), & 22 Health Problems (10%). QS 0.74

5-MeO-DMT: 205 Total Reports. 28 Glowing (14%), 35 Mystical (17%), 52 Difficult (25%), & 13 Health Problems (6%). QS 0.97

5-MeO-MIPT: 17 Total Reports. 2 Glowing (12%), 1 Mystical (6%), 2 Difficult (12%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 0.75

AMT: 184 Total Reports. 40 Glowing (22%), 2 Mystical (1%), 37 Difficult (20%), & 32 Health Problems (17%). QS 0.61

DiPT: 48 Total Reports. 4 Glowing (8%), 0 Mystical (0%), 10 Difficult (21%), & 2 Health Problems (4%). QS 0.33

DOB: 14 Total Reports. 3 Glowing (21%), 0 Mystical (0%), 1 Difficult (7%), & 2 Health Problems (14%). QS 1.00

DPT: 120 Total Reports. 26 Glowing (22%), 9 Mystical (8%), 28 Difficult (23%), & 11 Health Problems (9%). QS 0.90

MDMCAT (Methylone): 37 Total Reports. 9 Glowing (24%), 0 Mystical (0%), 4 Difficult (11%), & 0 Health Problems (0%). QS 2.25

TMA-2: 21 Total Reports. 2 Glowing (10%), 0 Mystical (0%), 1 Difficult (5%), & 1 Health Problems (5%). QS 1.00


Non-weighted average Quick Score (QS) = 1.16
Total # of substances included = 23
Total # of reports included = 1705

I B

[gorfehttimrek]

Concerning 2C-E and reports of stomach problems.

I encountered this with my first 3 attempts to research this compound.  It was during my third attempt that I found a solutions.  At 25mg I discovered that the come up was quicker than previously thought.  I was having difficulty with much stomach pain, but upon laying down and relaxing with eyes closed(at the 20 min. mark) I discovered an intense visual field I usually only found at the 45 min to 1 hour point.  Upon discovering this, I shifted into "trip" mode quicker and abandoned my previous endeavours, which I shall term "waiting" mode.  After switching modes to accomodate this quicker come up, I found the stomach pain was gone, and have used this quicker time flow for all subsequent research with this compound.  No further stomach pain has been encountered.  This research was conducted with dosages from the same 1 gram "batch" so differences in formulation can be be disregarded.  I firmly believe the stomach discomfort is brought about by the "psychic" changes wrought by this compound in the earliest moments of action, and the usual tendency of researchers to believe that an hours wait is required to "begin" this research.  This compound begins its action almost immediately and recognizing this and making allowances for it can prevent much "discomfort".


Kermit

[Kasumi]

I wrote a trip report on all the following I am about to post, but for collective information purposes, I will overview.

2-CC: Very mild, enhanced vision, easygoing psychedelic.  Absolutely no body load, even at higher 60mg doses.  Smoothest psych of my life.
2-CE: I experienced allergic reactions to this, so my body was unfit for this.  If it weren't for the sweating, nausea, itching, and cramping muscles, the visuals and mindset would have been great.  The biggest mindfuck of all the 2-CE's I reckon.
TMA-2: One of the few psychs that does not burn at all snorted.  Also the only other INCREDIBLY smooth psychedelic I've done.  Very relaxing, euphoric, kind of sedating.  Vision is more "watery"
1,4B: My favorite RC; it is just like taking ecstasy and alcohol at the same time, without any of the negatives of the two drugs.  It is like the perfect combination.  The only thing is that you have to take the PERFECT dosage; if you overshoot you will pass out, and if you undershoot, you will not experience its effects much.
5-MeO-DMT: Don't need to give my own story since I didn't get too much from it except horniness and one good trip.  There's plenty of other info on it from other users.
5-MeO-DPT (not to be confused with DiPT): Would have been a lot better and much more calming and euphoric had there been no body load, but the body load on this one was fucking terrible.
Methylone: Meh, must be too closely related to meth, cause 200mg barely did shit.

[gorfehttimrek]

2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-C, and 2C-D are all very similiar in effect, but the dosage varies for each to achieve the same effect.  2C-E is the most powerful and 30 mg of it equal around 80 -100 mg of 2C-C.  2C-I is the most colorful of the four and only slightly less potent than 2C-E  with 50 mg equaling a 30mg dose of 2C-E.  2C-D is about equal to the 2C-C in strength but is more "tense" feeling.  It is the best I can describe it.

I do not suggest anyone try 2C-E at 30mg the first time out,  some of my friends have been blown away by a 20mg dose and say they would not like to go any higher than that EVER.

It IS a first class psychedelic(2C-E) on par with LSD and should not be considered second rate or SAFE by any means.  Treat these compounds with respect and do not be fooled by those who say that they are worthless or of no consequence.  Those are the same people who claim there is strychnine in blotter.  They know not of that which they claim to speak of.

Kermit

[pet_the_demon]

5-MeO-aMT (A+)  I like this one because of it's longevity and intensity.  I have had a few bad experiences but i like bad experiences, so, Hella good.

5-MeO-DMT (A)  Hella intense, like being beat by God while your making love with the Universe. Short duration though...oh well.

2C-I (B)  Fun for Raves and social events, not crazy but the step before going crazy is how I like to describe this one, Either way one of my Favorites.

MDMA (C) Produces an Anti-social Mind set, but that's likely just me, Enjoyable, but too short for the lack of intensity

[Kasumi]

quote:Originally posted by Theodore:
Goff, the effects of phenethylamines are somewhat incomparable to other widely available psychedellics. The lucidity most experience is one of the reasons they are prefered over other drugs in their class.

Its clear they dont suit your tastes but I'm sure many would not agree with the statement that they are "garbage".

Anyhow, thats a pit off the point, sorry.

Theodore

Heh yeah...

I hear this statement a lot, that 2c's are garbage and anything short of 4aco's and doxx's shouldn't be bothered with...

But I love 2ce, it would honestly be one of my faves if only my body didn't react badly to it...  And it holds a lot of meaning to me...  It's the drug that started everything, my whole insane week in tokyo, by pure accident too...

(wants to get a creative 2-ce tattoo)  

[freethinker]

quote:Originally posted by Crystal Geyser:
1,4B: My favorite RC; it is just like taking ecstasy and alcohol at the same time, without any of the negatives of the two drugs.  It is like the perfect combination.  The only thing is that you have to take the PERFECT dosage; if you overshoot you will pass out, and if you undershoot, you will not experience its effects much.

If I was in an alternate universe where drug use advocation was not a crime, I'd say you should try to get ahold of some GBL or, even better of course, GHB. Same upsides, but much cleaner and healthier  

[DrYRHead]

quote:Originally posted by white rabbit:
i though maybe we could all list our favourite RC's and summarize the chems for others.  the letter that appears after the chemical name is its rating on the DOSRS Scale.

5-MeO-DMT (A+): extremely intense even at lower doses.  creates a feeling of the body disintregrating (sp?) at the molecular level.  most experiences are extremely ecstatic and blissful, but it is much too intense to use regularly.  insufflating is the prefered method if you feel like enduring the burn.

5-MeO-AMT (D): this one is strange, it seems that either you trip on it and have a great time with negligable body load, or you don't trip much and feel like shit.  this is an interesting, but not too intriguing chem.  i don't like it much because of the dysphoria early on, and also it lasts so damn long and causes a headache.  this chemical really feels slightly toxic; it produces no insights, and seems to be somewhat anxious.

2C-I (A): interesting, but no too profound.  its definitely a social-drug.  really, the best way i can explain it is "2C-E lite".  it feels much like 2c-e, but isn't as deep and with milder visuals.  it produces a general euphoria and increased empathy, but its still easy to go within.  the visuals are melty with that "persian-carpet" feel, but unless you take a high dose its somewhat difficult for things to get wierd.  its easy to go to sleep on this one, but you feel hungover and tired the next day.  body load is negligable, with ever-so-minor nausea early on.

2C-E (A+): the holy grail.  this is my favourite as of yet.  its extremely deep and introspective with wonderful visuals and a great euphoria with increased empathy. this is a great tool for meditation and can also be a wonderful conversation-enhancer to add a new level to your thoughts. this shit does have the potential to get wierd, so don't do too much too fast.  body load is less than 2C-I.  sleep comes difficult up to seven or eight hours after ingestion, but no hangover the next day.

suggested combos: 2C-I/2C-E; 5-MeO-DMT (smoked)/Ayahuasca; pot/5-MeO-AMT; wine with the 2C's will decrease anxiety and muscle-tension.

5-MeO-DMT: It is ntense, indeed, but it is not as visual as DMT and many others. Small amounts have been laced into other stuff with nice effect, though. 5-MeO-DMT mixed well with SD. It was also very hardcore when laced into DPT too.

5-MeO-AMT: Horrable body load and bad side effects. Not very trippy at all either. SWIMY liked AMT much better, and that one still left something to be desired.

2C-I: Good mental stimulant when taken orally. A good visionary trip when sniffed.
SWIMY thought it very MDA like. 2C-I seemed MDMA like when mixed with meth.  

SWIMY never met up with 2C-E, his vender friends got busted before that came to pass.
Those stupid DEA jerks.

[Mezza]

2C-I 5mg oral - Very mild psychedelic stimulation, lasting about 3-4 hours.  Faint visuals if SWIM looked for them, nice but subtle mood lift.

2C-I 10mg oral - An increase intensity and duration from 5mg, more pronounced visual effects and a very pleasant entheogenic component.  This is a nice 'subtrip' dose. 2CI felt very 'jittery' to SWIM the first few times he tried it.  But, after a few low-dose experiments to get aquainted with this new compound, he finds it to be a very smooth and pleasant stimulation.

4-ACO-DiPT 15mg oral - 15 minutes after ingestion, an alert. Then 10minutes later..BAM! Peaking at ++.  Music sounds wonderful, visuals start swirling and morphing, noticable erotic stimulation.  Then, 20 minutes later, its over!  In the 'indole come down edginess' phase that SWIM smooths out with good MJ. Completly back at baseline 2hrs after ingestion, trouble sleeping for another 2 hours.

Granted, these are low doses of the above compounds - but with RC's SWIM is very careful.  He also finds that taking time to learn how to 'tune in' to the frequency of each new chemical provides for a *much* more enjoyable experience as dosages are increased incrementally to find the sweet spot for SWIM.

Mezza

[Atman00]

I applaud you Mezza for your caution & concern. Wish all were as careful. Give the 2c-i a try in the 20-25mg range. One might find it less speedy & more like LSD.

[DrYRHead]

To SWIMY orally dosed 2C-I in the 15-22mg range felt very MDA like. Whne sniffed 10-13mg of it had the same type of effect, but it did not last as long.

[aeon blue]

quote:Originally posted by Gogglebox:
Yea, just sprinkle some of the Meo on a bowl of salvia.  Do not contact the flame with the Meo (you want to see it melt); inhale slowly.

So how do you get the Salvia to ignite, but only have the MeO melt? That's a pretty neat trick...

[illuminati boy]

This thread:

 http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php/topic,4162.0.html

has links to about 25 surveys that are gathering data about numerous so called 'research chemicals.'

[TAPPER]

2C-B (C) 25mg orally wasn’t too impressive, but building off that with 15mg
insufflated boosters made for a very powerful visual experience w/ no insight to speak of. Side effects (random and infrequent visual-flashes of light, trails, geographic patterns, etc) lasted in some form for several weeks in two different subjects. Although entertaining, the side effects outweigh any benefits so this isn’t high on the list to do again.

2C-E (D) 25mg orally resulted in a weak lsd like trip. BLAH sums it up best. Maybe
the expectations were too high based on others reports, maybe it was a bad
batch, who knows. Absolutely no desire to try again.

2C-I (B) 10mg oral makes for an enjoyable evening out in public, 25mg oral will
spice up movies at home , and insufflation (not recommended due to pain
involved) cranks up the visuals a couple notches. Not very insightful but
entertaining. Side effects are minimal or non-existent in numerous people
and virtually no complaints whatsoever.

4-ho-mipt (A) This one is a gem and deeply saddens many that it is no longer available.
15mg -20mg orally is a shorter duration shroom trip. Wonderful color with
a real warm undertones. Redosing mid-trip is not an issue and results in an as good if not better experience for all who have tried it. The real magic is its synergistic effect with MDMA and ability to be insufflated pain free. One can accurately “dial in” the high by insufflating and waiting 15 minutes. Several pages could be written about how this compound interacts with mdma depending on when its added and in what quantities. In short, small amounts (10mg-15mg) added post mdma peak ease comedown and make for a soothing and enjoyable time. More that 15mg administered this way feels more like a shroom trip and can be increased all the way up to full blow tripping. Amounts ranging from 15mg to 50 mg taken with mdma (orally) or just as mdma starts to kick in (insufflated) makes for an exceptionally positive, dreamy, feel good experience. The visuals can be quite impressive and if the right mix of mdma and 4-ho-mipt is attained; an almost creamy, dreamy, heavenly like state with visuals can be had. 50mg to 100mg insufflated with high dose mdma has lead to mostly pleasurable and very intense experiences with ego loss happening on two occasions. Having emergency valium handy and a note to self detailing time, dosage, etc. has been found to be quite helpful for intermittent stops back to reality.

[thereeper]

2C-C (B) 25mg, then 25mg booster an hour later since 1st dose seemed weak. Mild open eye visuals, lights would seem intense then not (especially red), posters "look" at you, wiggles, mild trails, cold hands warm head. Virtually no nausea, able to eat very easily. More empathic then 2C-I, much more socialable, urge to laugh at jokes. Not very deep/introspective, music wasn't very good either. Relaxed, mild euphoria, nothing for closed eye visuals, combined with kratom after 4 hours, very good synergy.

2C-I (A), 25mg, strong open eye visuals, watching things become stained glass windows, similar to LSA (high dose) in OEV. Walking around feeling somewhat like LSA as well. Closed eye visuals breath-takingly beautiful, red+green+blue geometric patterns, fully integratible with music, just awesome! Easy on stomach, body load very good, a little more deep then 2C-C, lasts another hour or two more then it as well. Peaceful sleep after, afterglow is not as empathic as 2C-C's too. Probably most postive feelings/experience of a trip with such an intensity. Overall easy on the mind, definetely a good thing.

DiPT(C)21mg, Sounds more distorted to low levels, women sound like men, one's own voice quite deep..music sounds terrible, though somewhat interesting, almost if it was real player, inside a coffee can audio (64kbs). Nausea way worse then 2C-C,I, breathing also slowed down more so, especially in combination with kratom, wouldn't want to go higher dose or try again, 2C-I blows it away.

Wonders what approximate equilvalent in ? mg of 2C-E = ~25mg 2C-I is?

[infraredroses]

Some thoughts on 2ci. I never tried it but my friend Ernie Lundquist has and he told me what to say...

Ernie recently got some 2ci from a reliable but expensive RC vender. It was his second batch of 2ci, but the first that did not come to him second hand, so he can be reasonably sure that it was indeed the 2cI and not another.

He always feels this tingling and wandering sensitivity where suddenly he is uncomfortably aware of the feel of his clothing, the spit in his mouth, all these tactile sensations that are usually filtered out of the mix since they are distracting and irrelevant.

He feels a little pressure in the thyroid, possibly a sensitivity to the iodine in the molecule?

He feels as though the effects really come in two stages. The early stage is very MDA like, a cokey lightness, subtle body rushes. After 2.5 hours visual effects kick in. Colors intensify, acid like wavering and undulating of the visual field, details sharpened like individual blades of grass standing out by the millions, instead of a green carpet.

It's very nice to be outside in nature on ths substance, Ernie says. Bird songs are particularly enjoyed.

In the supermarket during one peak on 10 mg, (all my experiences have been satisfying in the low end of the dose spectrum, says Ernie.)Hearing was so hypersensitive that he could hear the rustle of money being paid to the clerk at the next register, all the little beeps coming from over a dozen cash registers, drawers opening and closing, and the chatter of al the shoppers was all presented to Ernie's consciousness as being equally important and it was a little freaky.

Ernie really wants me to mention the closed eye visuals because they were incredible. His last dose did something the first three experiences didn't. Somewhat sedated him. There were even mushroom type yawns punctuating the peak. This could have been simple tiredness creeping in, or an effect not realized till Ernie had slightly upped the dose to 12-15 mgs. When I layed down, after two beers I was lulled into a trancelike relaxed state where beautifully varied fractals and transluscent beaded patterns of color moved with biological energy. (Says Ernie) Quite impressive.

Ernie is qite accustomed to drinking large amouns of alchohol when on LSD, with really positive results. He found 2ci to greatly intesify the feel of even a couple of beers to the point where there was a light "spin" sensation, usually not felt till lots more alcohol had been consumed. Ernie had smoked some weed with the beers, and found his head racheted up significantly. While vaccuming spilled potting soil off the kitchen table he experienced a weird sensation of "going away" a second at a time, where all of reality seemed to disapear strobically. This was a little unsettling and might have been compounded by the white noise of the vaccuum cleaner.

He says it's very easy to come down, and to sleep after being up.

It seems as though a week between trips is not enough to clear the tolerence. Usually a week off on acid leaves you with a clean slate but it seems like with 2ci you need at least two weeks.

Ernie is going to eat some more tonight. He likes to do it sublingually, then rinses with spring water and swallows.

Any suggestions, comments, or ideas?

 
       

[chemicaldreams]

u dont need that long to clear the tolerance, i've done 2c-i many many days in a row and it's only after the 5th day or so that you start to notice the lack of visuals on a high dose. I'd say 2-3 days and you're fine to get a good trip again, even when you do it days in a row you still get a solid buzz and mental trip.

and at the same time i guess i could add to the thread,

2c-t-2 40mg+ (A+): A beautiful trip, the colours are intensified greatly, objects wave and distort, patterns come out of the walls and move, colored lights flash and strobe, the headspace is very clear and you are quite lucid. There is also a great sense of happiness but at the same time it feels like a darker chemical. Mixing with weed seems to hinder visuals but intensify the mental aspect of the trip. Closed eye visuals are often very intense, feels like everything is moving very fast, similar to mescaline. 2c-t-2 feels a lot like mescaline but a way shorter duration and slightly different visuals.

[mepat1111]

quote:Originally posted by freethinker:

If I was in an alternate universe where drug use advocation was not a crime, I'd say you should try to get ahold of some GBL or, even better of course, GHB. Same upsides, but much cleaner and healthier    

I am quite certain K has done GHB.

RCs being the rarity they are in Australia, the closest I've come to an RC is 2C-B:

(B) Found it to be a fun hallucingen, but without any mind fuck. Would be good at a rave if combined with a stim IMO. Would also like to try sex on it. No body load to speak of.