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 The Lycaeum Forums » Integrate » Spirituality and Philosophy (Moderators: psilocyborg, Narkissos)Topic:
 And thus, a rant begins.

[klokwork]

          From grades 6-10 I attended a Christian school. I'm sure they attempted to teach us good morals, and standards, they wanted us to be good Christians and worship God in our daily lives, but you wanna know what I learned (or didn't learn) in my 5 long years? Who the fuck am I? and Who the fuck is God. This messed up, screwed up, thing that we try to pass off as a society everyday is a joke. This western, "civilized," christianized, consumerist land that we live in has got to come to terms with itself, and begin to accept more of the world. The little ipod bubbles we live in everyday block out everyone else except ourselves, and our closest friends. Whats going on. Why is this happening to our world. And thats why I do not worship God. Do I believe in a God? Yes, he may not be how we picture him, large and majestic, but I truly believe there is a governing force behind us. But what is he, and who does he think he is anyways? Thou Shalt not kill...WTF! Is God not killing right now? Thou shalt not commit rape. What about the young girl who is being raped right now?
                                                       where is God for her? oh of course, God is here, in our western society, but he has forgotten about all those other poor souls who aren't as lucky as us to live in a country governed by a democracy. Why are we so stuck up? I'm fed up with this, and Im fed up with the way others are treated. Please don't misunderstand me, im not blaming EVERYONE, you may feel, and believe as I do, I dont know, and if you're offended, im sorry. But we've forgotten what life is, with jobs, and work, and tax blah blah blah fucking blah blah blah. Where's the magic gone, where has the joy, the discovery of life gone? For instance, I woke up this morning, and i had to go to school. I didn't want to, but i had to. why? because that's how our society works, thats what our society feeds upon, structure, everything is structured and nothing happens from happenstance?
 Why couldn't i go for a hike and marvel at the valley i live in, take in the trees, celebrate nature and life, and love and just live! but no, I went to school and did my 6 hours behind those seemingly barred windows, knowing that if i did want i wanted to do an automated phone call would be sent, and a fight would ensue between my parents and I. Back to God. Where is he? What's he doing right now. Why does he allow rape, and murder, and let 1/2 the world die of starvation while 1/4 of it stuffs their fat faces and the remaining quarter barely gets by with 3 kids 2 flat tires and no job. Am i guilty of this? sure i am, im weak, i like many others spend my few dollars on chocolate, and things that'll be gone or forgotten in 2 days time. But at least I'm here, and these ideas plague me. I don't worship God, I couldn't worship God, it wouldnt be real. I don't want into heaven what ever it may be, and as my life goes on perhaps I'll have experienced  more and understand more of life so i wont be so bitter and hard. But from what i've seen of the world, it's a rough, place to be. And why is that? because God is lazy. If we were loved as much as it talks about in the bible, and god was as omniscient as he claims to be, then why is that girl being raped as im typing this? why was that man just murdered? and why can't i understand, why can no one understand what is going on? why its going on?
                                             I'm not full of hate, i love as much as i can, i try to be as generous and as giving as my financial situation will allow (and its not good, trust me) but it's not enough, and it never will be enough. Does life has its beautiful moments? of course, remember that one time you went to the beach with your wonderful girlfriend? of course! and that time you woke up and made banana pancakes while listening to jack johnson! Yes! but many many things attempt to outweigh that. I dont know where i'm going with this. But i attempt to prove my point to god if thats possible, i want him to see that just because "sin" (whatever it is) is rampant, thats no reason to simply let it happen. Thank you for reading this if you read the whole thing, i know most of it was probably very difficult to read, perhaps not understandable in some parts, but thank you for sticking through and seeing my view point so far on life in general.

[mirrorman]

shut up and go to church.  

i too went to a christian school, and catholic at that. *shudders*

fortunately my dad is a pot smoking hippy who introduced me to meditation.  this, drugs and a thirst for knowlege helped me in understanding god and myself.  maybe one day i will know god and myself, but not yet.

life is all that happens and is perfect and ok even if it seems fucked up.  we need to expand our view of who god is.

dont read the bible.  dont go to church.

[x]

Feels good to get it out huh.  

No matter where you are, on the path of life, it is always good to be able to articulate how it is making you feel. You did that well.  

I know how you feel, I work 12 hour days, building and landscaping, I am on the bus for 2 1/2 hours a day.

But I always find time to hike the hills, though I am lucky and they start on my doorstep, but still the weekend is yours, get in there and find yourself.

If you know how to read a map, use a compass, know the flora and fauna, have some food and water and means of keeping warm, your good to go, if its dark take a head torch, the freedom is in your head. Have you ever seen the movie 'Into the wild', you might like that, its one of, if not, my favourites.

But its easy to say this when you have your own house and your own rules, if you are still living at home, well, you gotta just grin and bare it . But don't worry about it, soon you will get your chance to call your own shots, and it's fun, but be wise.

Don't worry about what others do in the name of god, and don't worry about what they say their God can do. Name your own god, and give it qualities you want it too have, love is a good one, but love doesn't come from god, it comes from you.

[WeeDie]

The world begins with Misery. God is just another word for the totality of time, which balances perfectly into non-existence. Misery is the other end of Paradise and you're on the road towards it. Through your reason, not necessarily logic, God wills his way out in the world, cleanses sin, and if your heart is filled with compassion, regrets ever playing such a sick joke on himself.
God is within.
As powerless or powerful as you are.

[farmerjack]

IME getting rid of those seeds planted in my head by a Catholic education is a lifelong task.

You are ultimately faced with a decision to jettison everything you've been told and never look back(good luck with that) and spending the rest of your days trying to reconcile what you've been programmed to accept/believe with the myriad questions that life presents - and realizing you'll never be reconciling the two.

If I'd had children they would have been home schooled and no religious anything would have been taught. Also no political correctness, a religion of it's own, and just as full of contradictions.

[WeeDie]

To deal with evil, it's probably easier to change one's conception of God, then to get rid of God completely. If God is ultimately good and ultimately powerful, existing like an überator, why does he allow sin to happen? Why does he not display his power and keep everybody in check?
The answer of course is that the idea of an all powerful, all good God, that intervenes with miracles, is wrong!
It is impossible for a system (God) to interact with another system (universe) without some changes in integrity. Therefor, God, had he ever existed as a separate system, have lost his ability to influence this system. Or God, that has been conceived as ultimately powerful, and ultimately good, someone that dictates and separates right from wrong, does NOT exist at all, at least not by those terms in any meaningful way.
In a lot of religious traditions however, the conception of God is usually more sophisticated. The ongoing discussions and revelations of what God is, have been around for many thousands of years. Personally, I find a lot affinity with the panentheistic notion of God. It explains to me the feeling of being God, and moments of spiritual awe and ecstasy.
The image of God we've been indoctrinated with through Catholicism and Protestantism is simply wrong. The Bible is a political instrument and not the word of God.
The word of God comes from me, and others, who have contemplated who and what God is. Not from some old book.

[Kosmo]

You are ultimately faced with a decision to jettison everything you've been told and never look back(good luck with that) and spending the rest of your days trying to reconcile what you've been programmed to accept/believe with the myriad questions that life presents - and realizing you'll never be reconciling the two.

You can't reconcile what was never true.  Mankind evolves, as does religion, science, and all the other useful "institutions". We simply don't know yet how to reconcile the messy reality of finite beings with the reality of an infinite God who is also perfect.  At least on an intellectual level.

On an emotional level, or that of a transcendent experience, you might stop quarreling with yourself about it and decide to live as if you are building something that will survive your biological death, and that answers to these questions will, if not be resolved, be further explored.

In a way, there are only two choices: live as if there is "meaning" and purpose to the universe, including us, or as if there is none.  But whatever you decide, there is no point complaining to some idea of God you previously acquired about the way you think things are.

[starshadow]

Don't worry about what others do in the name of god, and don't worry about what they say their God can do. Name your own god, and give it qualities you want it too have, love is a good one, but love doesn't come from god, it comes from you.

X, that is BRILLIANT ! 

Should be nailed to the door of every church, mosque, and temple in the whole wide world 

[Gnome]

Not that I'm any expert, but I suspect Nietzsche is a good read for purging one's mind of the Christian habbits.

Or just blasting some early norwegian black metal  Deathcrush EP anyone?

[farmerjack]

You are ultimately faced with a decision to jettison everything you've been told and never look back(good luck with that) and spending the rest of your days trying to reconcile what you've been programmed to accept/believe with the myriad questions that life presents - and realizing you'll never be reconciling the two.

You can't reconcile what was never true.  Mankind evolves, as does religion, science, and all the other useful "institutions". We simply don't know yet how to reconcile the messy reality of finite beings with the reality of an infinite God who is also perfect.  At least on an intellectual level.

On an emotional level, or that of a transcendent experience, you might stop quarreling with yourself about it and decide to live as if you are building something that will survive your biological death, and that answers to these questions will, if not be resolved, be further explored.

In a way, there are only two choices: live as if there is "meaning" and purpose to the universe, including us, or as if there is none.  But whatever you decide, there is no point complaining to some idea of God you previously acquired about the way you think things are.

Hey Kosmo,

do me a favor and restate your sentences in other ways. I'm pretty sure I get the drift of what you're saying and suspect there's a valuable truth lying in there somewhere. But I don't want to start peppering you with questions about this because that would lead you where I want you to go instead of me getting to where you are, you know?

thanks

[Kosmo]

Oh man, what was thought in a moment of time then is long gone now.
And what could make you think anything new from me would be an improvement?

I think I wanted to point out that you recognize you were conditioned by your past, yet you wrote that you allow that past to frame your own questions so narrowly, and with such a sense of finality about it. 

I think I wanted to give you a slight nudge, a virtual arm on your shoulder with a verbal "C'mon now, snap out of it; what makes you think those old priests and nuns knew anything about anything, huh?"

Uh, thanks for thinking there might be some valuable truth in my other post!  If only you could find it, right?

[Mens Rea]

      I'm not full of hate, i love as much as i can, i try to be as generous and as giving as my financial situation will allow (and its not good, trust me) but it's not enough, and it never will be enough. Does life has its beautiful moments?

Proof that money is stringently linked to overall happiness (or perception thereof). The people who say "money doesn't matter" are always the ones who have money.

[lovemaster]

if you scrutinize our myths you will glean some flashes of the truth they obscure/try to communicate. look thoroughly east and you'll find the story: "There is suffering, there is a cause for suffering, there is an end of suffering, and there is a path of practice that puts an end to suffering."

Recognition of the suffering is the first step and should set you on the journey of building your own story of mythic proportions.

in the old testament god's people suffer until christ the hero comes and delivers man from hell (i.e. separation from god )    in the epic of gilgamesh the king built a city wall -a contribution that outlives him.

no matter what your mission or your story you are called to be a hero like your teachers and parents said...if you believe in law and life as such....of course some folks think just being loved and happy is all, and they're correct, and some want to sit on the couch and be the n othing they feel, and they're broken and also correct

[Teafaerie]

  You can either have Undifferentiated Perfect Unity or you can have Story.  If you go with Story, then it's got to be played out in a Universe in which tension exists between opposing forces. (not like God and the Devil - I mean forces the physics sense, but that implies everything else)

  I think it's just how it is.  You know how Cristianity always says we are children of God?  But the child of a sheep grows up to be a sheep... (just decided to post long rant as another topic - look for "Mammafesta" if you're interested) but anyway maybe this whole universe is a baby god and this is how it grows up - moving from lower order singularity to higher order singularity through the process of multiplicity. Evolution implies forces bootstrapping themselves by pushing off of each other.  So there's got to be some tension.  It's still beautiful, though.  If you can't get behind the idea that this universe is awesome then you're kinda screwed, you know?

[evil_goat]

Nice rant, I liked it!

This is the question that plagues everyone, why is there suffering and evil in a world supposedly governed by an all-powerful, merciful being? Hmm. . . I think I have a good answer for that one--guess what it is?

Either there is no God, or the dude exists but he's neutral or evil.  In either case don't waste your time worshiping such a being.  I went through the struggle of losing my belief in God and the afterlife and all that, it's amazingly depressing at first, but later, once you accept it, it becomes liberating and you feel better about things.  If there is any meaning or value to life, you have to make it yourself, it's not going to be magically created for you by anyone.  I'm not a Buddhist, but he said something about 'each person being his own light'  i.e. being self sufficient and finding your own way.

And even if the universe is cold, impersonal, and meaningless, it's also amazingly complex and cool, and it's incredible that we evolved to the point of being able to start to understand it.

[WeeDie]

The limits to our knowledge, exceeds our possibility to understand IT or That. Unknowing is the road to seeing IT or That directly, as it is. And no words are sufficient to describe That. I stand in Awe. Bliss is my essence, nothing is my form. Thank you God, empty God of nothing.