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 The Lycaeum Forums » Integrate » Spirituality and Philosophy (Moderators: psilocyborg, Narkissos)Topic:
 Ignorant and annoying neo-hippies always say: "you should be happy and relax"...

[pshmell]

Hell yes they do.

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

It's just the feeling of things passing through other things.

And all the colored girls say, "doo do doo do doo do do doo."

[pshmell]

[pylkko]

Thanx. Now I know!!!!!!!

[evil_goat]

I think different people have a different base happiness level.  Some rich people commit suicide, and others would be happy as shit all the time if their life was that good.  Some dirt poor fucked up life people are very happy, for some unknown reason.

It seems to be a combination of baseline happiness level (probably the chemical balance in your brain) combined with how good life actually is for you.

My problem is not my baseline happines, which is OK, but the fact that my life is crap.  If it were better, i'd be pretty happy. (or would I . . .) hmm.

[Gnome]

This baseline happiness level, does it stem from genes? Surroundings comined with experiences? All of them?

Why is your life crap? Tell me your tale!

[farmerjack]

It's just the feeling of things passing through other things.

And all the colored girls say, "doo do doo do doo do do doo."

Ya!, Lou Reed know something about things passing through other things

[farmerjack]

It is all electro chemical and the wonder of psychedelics is that they allow whatever it is that we think of as we to step out of that electro chemical reality and watch it work and realize that what we have come to know as we is not a part of that finite material thing, but that the finite material thing is a part of what we have come to know know to be we.

OK, now it's your turn to put down that pipe!

[Gnome]

And the way they fade up and down the reverb in symbiosis with the chorus girls and the saxophone... And that double bass over the electric (The bass-player asked if they wanted another bassline cos they'd have to pay him extra for it ^^)

It is all electro chemical and the wonder of psychedelics is that they allow whatever it is that we think of as we to step out of that electro chemical reality and watch it work and realize that what we have come to know as we is not a part of that finite material thing, but that the finite material thing is a part of what we have come to know know to be we.

OK, now it's your turn to put down that pipe!

I get where he's coming from. I'm sure you do too 

[Mens Rea]

Now remember, if you routinely protest against burning trees, but you're all about burning marijuana, then you are probably a hippie. 

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

Marijuana grows back a lot easier than trees.

Where you see "hippies," I see people who go through the same shit as everyone else in the larger sense. They are trying to make sense of the world, to find a way of life that seems right to them. There may be hypocrisy, but you can find that anywhere. You can't accept and forgive your own limitations and hang-ups if you can't accept and forgive that of others.

Creating and maintaining virtuous ways of life has been an endeavor for all people, all throughout recorded history. When you realize that we're all coming from the same place here you can see that everyone has something to offer you through their experience. Otherwise you remain in the infantile state of the brain's moral function and information can only be expressed to you through black/white, us/them scenarios.

Years ago I saw "be strong, be wrong" written on a friend's wall. There's still something to that for me - something worth remembering.

[verbatim]

I agree with HAP. All we can do is try. If someone picks us apart for what we do wrong, they do not see what we are doing right, or what they are doing wrong. Then again, 'wrong' and 'right' are those labels we were talking about earlier.

People struggle to avoid or define themselves by labels like hippie or conservative. We try to live up to myths and in the end loose our true self to titles. I am a peace loving hippie. But yet I am not. I see a hippie as someone who does drugs and does not think about teh world around them. Yet I am glad when someone calls me a hippie because it means I do not appear as one of 'them'. It is obvious I am not a happily naive participant in society at large.

And in the end, we cannot know what we are because we cannot know what we will be, or what we have been. Our perception of ourselves is just to subjective to assign labels.

And Mens Rea, I don't give a turd about recyclable bags or the polar ice caps. What I do care about is when people are getting cancer and their kids teeth are rotting away because a company cannot properly dispose of their chemicals. I do care when companies take shortcuts and put cost over lives. It doesn't matter if it is an environmental issue or worker's rights or escrow. Life should always be more important than property. Always!

[Kosmo]

Mr. Verbatim, your thoughts are worth repeating. 

However:

And in the end, we cannot know what we are because we cannot know what we will be, or what we have been. Our perception of ourselves is just to subjective to assign labels.

We may not know, but we can observe what we are in a moment of freedom from whatever we will be or whatever we were.  This would be a moment of objectivity, if it occured, and our subjectivity would be another "thing" to be observed in the present of such a moment.

Hope you don't mind me being a little contrary today.

[foreward]

Mr. Verbatim??? holy shit, I wish someone would have told me!! Wait a minute, how is that even possible?

While I think it is true that recycling, picking up trash alongside the highway and using cloth grocery bags are a huge distraction from teh real issues, I do think it is in our interest to not leave our trash about. I am personally a bit conflicted when it comes to events such as the rainbow gathering. On one end I think it's great to be out there and actually experiencing one another and nature in such a collective front. On the other, there is no way that 20,000 people (some hippies, some weekend warriors) shitting in the woods won't leave behind some lasting pollution which cannot be accounted for at cleanup. I don't doubt that there is truth to The Family's cleanup efforts, and there really isn't that much trash about during the event itself, but at the same time I think that it's totally ridiculous to say that there is no impact either.

On the other hand, what the timber, chemical, energy and other industries are doing to our national, publicly owned land is so much greater in damage I kind of have a hard time dogging on The Family for some poo left over or a few dixie cups overlooked at a yearly event which never takes place in the same location. By comparison the impact is pretty small. Hell, prob by comparison they typical American's daily lifestyle, events such as the Rainbow are pretty insignificant.

So yeah, when I buy a juicy steak wrapped in plastic and on a Styrofoam tray, I kind of have a hard time looking back to the Rainbow Gathering and questioning if I should have shat in that hole when you consider how much carbon it took to get that steak from the feed lot to my dinner plate, let alone the amount of pollution in the form of fertilizers and fecal matter. One NPR report said that using a cloth bag will offset less than 1% of the carbon on your shopping list.

And CG - I don't know why you assume that hippes are the ones leaving trash behind.  

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

I think that a lot of drug users and other quasi-freaks get an anti-"hippie" (I use that word in quotes because I'm not sure there's even a good consensus on what it means) bias due to fear of being found guilty by association. Mainstream society perpetuates that bias as they dismiss any arbitrary grouping of people that they feel does not participate in the common ideals of capitalist, consumerist culture, and some folks are afraid they'll be casualties in the lifestyle wars. In summary, they join in the exclusion so they can feel included.

It's amusing to me how a lot of people in the online drug community seem to want to normalize the psychedelic experience. By my guess, it'll never be normal, never a humdrum weekday afternoon kind of thing, so all I want is for the more straight-laced citizens to not lose their cool over others' revelatory experiences. A culture that can't understand the roles of mystics, outsiders, and freaks is at war with its own nature. Don't make drugs boring, please. You don't have to think outside of Pandora's box or let Schroedinger's cat out of the cosmic bag, but I think it may be in everyone's best interests if we don't automatically shun those who accept risk as an integral part of meaning's discovery.

Maybe "you should be happy and relax," getting back to the topic, is a protective measure. When you've overcome some of the unhealthy games that plague us all and you get this existential high from a clarity of consciousness, it can be a bummer (oh no, hippie vernacular!) to see how those you love, or at least respect, are unconsciously trying to put you back into constrictive behavior patterns so as to pose no threat to the illusion of stability in mental structures. I still don't really know what to say when someone seems to want me to suffer as an odd form of mutual sympathy. Not that anything really needs to be said, but sometimes I do make it known that I won't play along, no matter how much I risk the approval of my peers.

So, yeah, we should be happy and relax. 

[vampirebunnies]

Regarding blissful happiness vs. grumpy cynicism, they are both useful outlooks.  According to the yogic system of "light bodies," there are 10 of them, and the second is called Negative Mind, or also Protective Mind.  Being in this state of mind is protective, as it protects from danger by taking an outlook which searches for danger therefore keeping one out of possible trouble or harm.  People who are cynical, sarcastic, grumpy or make statements about "annoying hippies" are just in negative mind.  This does not mean they have to stay there all the time, but this state does serve a purpose.  They are scared.  The Positive Mind, or blissful happiness, relaxation and feeling of contentment is called Positive or Projective Mind.  In this state one "projects" their feelings of happiness outward toward others, proclaiming, "you should be happy and relax, everything is ok!"  Of course, to be in Projective/Positive mind one must not be scared.  Being scared will usually cause you to revert back to negative/ protective mind, protecting yourself from danger.   

[Teafaerie]

 Ignorant people say a lot of things that are true. And not all hippies are ignorant. Not all hippies are hippies, for that matter.  I'm a Rainbow kid (who has stayed a month after a National Gathering to pick up every cigarette butt and reseed trails) and I'm a Burner and a freak and a technophile and I went to college and I read and use the internet.

   I'm a huge fan of relaxing and being happy.  Bring on the transcendental bliss! Or at least long cozy mornings in bed.  As I said in the 2013 thing, I think it's my sacred duty to raise morale on this starship until it's big enough to fend for itself.  Despairing people solve no problems.  Not that constructive tension doesn't have it's place.  Sometimes sadness is like sickness - the way that a body/mind/spirit processes out impurities, and there is nothing to do besides help the sadness complete it's work and not to treat it superficially with bandaid measures and symptom maskers only to have it break out again all the worse.  I just think of it like the ego.  Imagine the ego or constructive tension like a machete hanging off of your belt. It's great when you need it, but then put the damned thing in a sheath when you're done with it or it will cut your legs up while you're climbing around.  I'm not a blissninny.  I work all the time and write all the time and I try to be as happy and relaxed as possible while I do it.

   Why?  Well, for one thing it's more pleasant for myself and others.  Also I imagine that I manifest better when I'm happy.  The closer to clear beaming universal love the better.  I learned this from MDMA.  At first I just thought I could manifest like crazy when I was on ecstasy.  Turns out it's not the drug, it's the state the drug puts me in.  (I know, well, duh!  But I'm a slow learner, or was back then.)

   I also sometimes do meditations where I take on huge amounts of universal suffering and resonate with the pain of evolving humanity and so forth as part of the practice, and I think it's good to work with that stuff sometimes.  It's an important place to visit.  But I wouldn't want to live there.

[Kosmo]

As I said in the 2013 thing, I think it's my sacred duty to raise morale on this starship until it's big enough to fend for itself.  Despairing people solve no problems.  Not that constructive tension doesn't have it's place.

Love that, and I'm with you!

[farmerjack]

Dennis Preger (sp?) has an AM radio talk show in which he does a full hour every friday on his "Happiness Hour".

He maintains that projecting a happy countenance is a moral obligation of everybody. It's a mutual reinforcement thing. He argues that we all need to feel our existences and our circumstances in this life are joyous and therefore worthwhile. Or the flipside is true - that this life is meaningless and we may as well be ugly as happy.

Works for me.

[Kosmo]

I just finished a cryptogram that quotes Camus:

But what is happiness
except the simple harmony
between a man and the life he leads.

[WeeDie]

I think we are morally obliged to be honest and not shroud our self with misconceptions. If we face our mortality, here and now, we might come across undying happiness, or we might not. In any case, the true state of affairs is more worthwhile to me than whatever impermanent flicker my life may be in the ocean of consciousness. I live for the absolute - like a yogi. If happiness comes my way, I will not reject it, although I have forsaken happiness at times. If sadness passes through me I will not deny it, although I've thought many times that something must be wrong with me for feeling sad. But more and more I've learned to surrender to what is for every moment. I can't think of a better way to live.. or die. In doing so, I feel complete.

[WeeDie]

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/centerstage/episodes/episode_7_-_in_praise_of_melancholy

[pylkko]

originally - that is before all the talk about carbon and plastic and other "stuff" - i was thinking about something along the lines of why would anyone even attempt to be happy in the first place. there are numerous aphorisms and guidelines which tell about how this difficult thing called "happiness" can be achieved through some mysterious manner. but rarely do they tell you why you should want happiness.

at it's most banal level wanting happiness is childish and ridiculous. it's not even possible theoretically to be happy all the time. just as there is no good without a bad for contrasts sake, happiness cannot exist without the experience of other feelings. but less trivially, it could just as well be argued that a good life is a diverse one. musically poor people listen to the same shit their entire life. in a similar manner emotionally poor people would feel the same shit all the time. lastly it could also be argued that there are proper feelings and moods for in respect to certain situations. therefore it could considered improper  to be happy at certain times, or perhaps even all the time.

[Gnome]

Well put, u. But don't be so cynical  I agree, emotions need their counterparts, otherwise how could we be able to recognize them or even feel them? But happiness is worth striving for in itself, because there's always some shit that happens that will bring us down. We get through that shit cos we hope to be able to wash it off with soap and hot water.

I'm puzzled and impressed by those who claim to be able to remain happy most of the time, and even people who remain sad. How the hell do they do it?

I think Nietsche was a really sad man, don't you agree? ^^ I doubt he'd be able to think they way he did if he'd been a ray of sunshine. Even Nietsche must have felt happy from time to time, otherwise he wouldn't have seen the point in doing any of his work.

The feeling that haunts me most of the time is apathy. Why is that?

[farmerjack]

Decades ago when I was a painter I painted a house for a man who had this stenciled on his bedroom wall

Today I Choose...........

It was opposite the headboard of his bed so everyday when he woke up he was confronted with the challenge of deciding how he'd spend his day. It forced him to make a choice between productive and lazy, punctual or late, you get the picture - he was reminding himself to be the master of his own fate.

So I asked him what motivated that stenciling. The answer was long but boiled down to "today I choose to be happy and not bitch and moan about every little thing, and do my best to be my best". It's a simple virtue when you think about it.

[dog - Please unban me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1]

Hey weedie that's a really cool thing to say. Who is this wilson guy? Never heard.

[Hyperspatial Ape Beausoleil]

Questioning why one would want to be happy, at least in the context of this thread, seems to take the matter away from biology and constrain it within philosophy, or worse yet, ethics. Energy in our squishy little world seems to go through a cycle. Part of this cycle, one might say, is happiness. Or perhaps happiness is the ability itself of the cycle to be completed rather than hung up on one part.

The latter might be more akin to what Weedie describes as the yogi's acceptance. That state seems dismal at first, but if one sees it through it can flower into something much more redeeming, something that could be explained rather crudely as "happiness." Ah, well, crudeness is simple, so this is not without appeal. I am happy to exist, however that turns out.

Wilhelm Reich's version of the cycle (tension -> charge -> discharge -> relaxation) works for me. Just as there is no orgasm without an initial sexual tension in the muscles, happiness also must follow certain tensions. It will come and it will go, all the while providing us with an indigenous chemical reward system that guides us through the terrestrial matrix.

I've noticed this cycle occurring many times over in my life thus far, and not by chance so much as by an equal balance of points and counterpoints. You can't avoid either side of the coin. Even when I've tried to remain in a sad state, I've failed terribly. Or failed rather joyfully, you might say. The best we can do, as far as I can tell, is be an honest witness to change.

[psilocyborg]

ime the most profound of sadnesses are portals to a state of timeless joy.

good grief indeed.

[pshmell]

HAB, the great Articulator.

[starshadow]

Weedie's link is spot on; negative emotions are GREAT if often uncomfortable!

It's IF they become pathological that probs arise.

Sadness vs depression
Anger vs hate
Desire vs greed

Trouble is, with the current mania for pathologising everyday life, (and thus you can sell people pills for nonexisitent conditions at vast profit), we are becoming disenfranchised of our very emotions, creating yet another divide-and-rule scenario, except this one divides us from ourselves.

All of our emotions can be seen as raw material or fuel, and like the alchemists point out over and over, the Great Work consists in transforming the nigredo into the albedo via the fire of the rubedo, but first you have to get down and get your hands dirty; nothing can be achieved by pretending it doesn't exist.