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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Non Visionary Plants (Moderators: Papyrifera, Noman)Topic:
 Simple Question: Do variant strands of marijuana produce different effects?

[Mens Rea]

at 4x a week, I think you would have noticed any schizophrenia likely to onset by now, but I'm not a doctor, lawyer, or indian chief.

I only started smoking regularly like 2 weeks ago... On other drugs, it took at least 2 months of chronic use to develop onset of psychosis or auditory hallucinations. I even got it with heroin, though I have no idea how that works.

edit: In my former post I meant I chose sativa/indica cause it's one of the few strands that DOESN'T cause me to wake up groggy. Basically I'm seeking any type of strands that doesn't cause that super groggy hangover effect the next morning. I hate that, and it just so happens to occur with like 80% of them.

[cloud9]

I always thought that the different effects of indica/sativa was a bunch of bs, and it was all subjective to the experience. 

Now MJ dispensaries have given some the ability to get many "pure" known sativas from the menu.  I have noticed a difference, even with sativa dominated hybrids, pure sativas are much more clear and psychedelic.  I don't think many commercial street growers grow pure sativas.  Not quite as efficient as an indica or hybrid

I agree it could be placebo, but it works for me

[Mens Rea]

I always thought that the different effects of indica/sativa was a bunch of bs, and it was all subjective to the experience. 

Now MJ dispensaries have given some the ability to get many "pure" known sativas from the menu.  I have noticed a difference, even with sativa dominated hybrids, pure sativas are much more clear and psychedelic.  I don't think many commercial street growers grow pure sativas.  Not quite as efficient as an indica or hybrid

I agree it could be placebo, but it works for me

Dude, the dispensaries in California even differentiate that there are ELEVEN different types of cannabinoids.  Though I don't even know of anybody who's connossieur taste is so refined they can actually tell the differences of these.

[x]

It all gets you stoned.

[foreward]

^^ heh. maybe not "all"

[starshadow]

I'll think I'll pass on the offtopic bits and stick to Crystal's point 

Altho we all have experienced diff effects with diff weeds (and in my experience to a lesser extent with hash), I think the question is valid cos of Crystal's ref to the placebo effect, and the impicit ref to set and setting.

The placebo point can be largely accounted for due to the fact that at most cannabis cup type deals, wherever they are held, the judges are blinded to the smoke, and report different qualities (not just effect) between smokes. Not exactly a gold standard experiment, but at least they are blinded.

This doesn't mean there is no placebo effect to some degree, and individuals may vary. But the dope cup thing is noteworthy.

More interesting is the set/setting thing. I'd class mj as a having a quasi non-specific effect. In general, if I smoke one type then the effect's generally similar; however, the details can vary a lot. I believe this is strongly linked to set (especially physical and mental) and of course setting. At the same time I get the feeling that the plethora of substances in grass may even vary between buds from the same plant, leading to different effects. Only analysis could prove/disprove this, so it remains a hypothesis, but it is testable.

The other thing is that many strains are not at all stable. So, you can grow say Durban and get pretty diff looking plants from the same batch. I'd say there's an immediate case for saying they would have diff effects again due to diff expression of diff chems in the bud.

[foreward]

I also do not think that this is placebo. Perhaps for those who are aware of the "brands" they are buying, but for most people, they go to their dealer's house, pick up a quarter sack and smoke up. It doesn't say what the brand is on the baggie, and frankly until medical marijuana (or maybe cheech and chong) the idea of genetic strains wasn't that big of a deal to the consumer.

It is highly likely that baggies people are buying are of mixed genetics, if not mixed sources.

Because consumers are typically not aware of the quality, genetic makeup or brand of any given sack we would have no way to know what we should expect. I've heard reports of bags bought from the same dealer on different occasions that are not only less or more potent, but yield significantly different experiences. If this were placebo, it would be reasonable that we'd expect similar results every time; and while set and setting might play a role, it would not be consistent over the consumption of batch.

[gorfehttimrek]

With thirty + years history of experience with mexican imported weed.  I can say very adamantly that the quality of mexican commercial weed has increased considerably since I was a youngster.   Lots of new genetics have been introduced and mixed in with the mexican "dirt weed" we used to get for $10 and ounce back in the early 70's.   The prices are still pretty close to that level as well, indexed for inflation against 1969 dollars.  It's only $50 an ounce now, or $160 for a QP, $500 a pound.

But the quality is alot better than what passed for quality weed out of a $10 sack back in '71.   

I also agree with Starshadows assertion about set and setting affecting reaction to the weed.  Mental head space determines alot of the differences people perceive in weed effects.  But generally speaking the higher the CBN and CBC levels the more of a body stone it produces.  Lower levels of those with higher ratios of THC 1, 6 and 9 make for an energizing mental effect.   High levels of both, create a weed that everyone likes to call 'creeper'.  It hits you fast, then slowly paralyses you. 

Kermit

[x]

I am a heavy marijuana smoker myself, infact I am stoned right now, but that is no big deal, I am always stoned.

I smoke everyday. All day. It has been this way for a good fifteen years, I would be lucky to have gone a week without smoking pot in that period, but I can't guarantee it was that long it probably just felt like it.

My first smoke is at six in the morning, a joint, I have it on my deck with my morning coffee, My next smoke is at around eight, when I am settled in for the day at work, but it is usually just a sneak a toke, I share this with my work mates. I  have another cone at ten on my first break for the day, this again is shared with my work mates. I try to have another cone before lunch, usually hiding somewhere dubious on my own. Its back to sharing again around three during afternoon tea. At four forty in the afternoon I always have a sneaky cone in the park across the street from where I catch the bus home, it helps alot, its a long trip. When I get home at around six I like to catch up with my girlfriend, see how her day went, I will have a joint and she makes me a coffee, we do this every day religiously. I then I have a shower and have a quick cone before its time for tea. After tea I like nothing more than to chill out for a few hours doing nothing more than relaxing and smoking some pot, I also spend this time reading, playng guitar, listening to music, mapping the stars, and as of recently searching the internet. These are great things to do when your stoned.

That is my weekday routine, on the weekend I like hiking the hills behind my house (25 miles to the closest road, its all trees), riding my mountain bike, playing music, hunting, fishing or hanging with friends, family and loved ones. I usually smoke alot more pot during the weekend than I do the week days. And as you could imagine this lifestyle requires alot of pot. So I have to have a very heavy supply at hands at all times. This requires many sources, I have friends who grow the most perfect showroom indoor buds, hybrid specimens from dutch masters, the best of the best, but a pretty penny, I have friends who grow amazing bud but do so organically outdoors with ancient outdoor strains, also can be expensive, but is so good people can believe it was grown outdoors. I also have many back up friends that live in the hills and grow endless supplies of wild bush weed, unmanicured and raw.

When you smoke the good shit it rocks you no matter how experienced you are, I have seen the mighty fall to the floor in a heap. When you smoke the bush weed it tastes nasty and can give you a headache. But I know for sure that when you smoke as much as I do and you run out, any weed tastes good. Also no matter how good your weed is if you smoke alot you build up a tolerance, what it takes to get me stoned can cause psychosis in others, it really is all relative.

But to answer the question : Do varient strands (or strains) of marijuana produce different effects? Answer : Yes they do

But in answering a different question : Does set and setting produce different effects from the same strain of marijuana? Answer : yes it can

Another question : Can one particular strain of marijuana have different effects on different people? Answer : yes it can  

Are some people more likely to develop mental illness than others : yes

Can marijuana use create psychotic states in people predisposed to mental illness : yes

Would these people have experienced psychotic states without the use of marijuana : ?

Can marijuana use create psychotic states in people not predisposed to mental illness : ?

Does heavy marijuana use always create psychotic states : No

Does heavy marijuana use often create psychotic states : No

Do some marijuana users suffer from mental illness : Yes

Do some non marijuana users suffer from mental illness : Yes

Why is this thread about a plant psychoactivity in the non-visionary plants section : ?

[Mens Rea]

I only started smoking regularly like 2 weeks ago... On other drugs, it took at least 2 months of chronic use to develop onset of psychosis or auditory hallucinations. I even got it with heroin, though I have no idea how that works.

Actually, I just remembered an experience I had on weed over a week ago. I had totally forgotten that this happened, but I was over at my b/f's house, and after we smoked some of his medi bud (I think THC only?), I began to get extremely paranoid. So much to the point that I was convinced that my b/f was a professional assassin who was hired to kill my family and feed me a lifetime of angst. As he was being affectionate, I kept thinking in my head, "This is all just a trick! He's trying to make you BELIEVE he's into you!!!"

I didn't respond to him for like 2 or 3 days after that incident too. To this day, I still keep that option open in my head, (that although he is probably not a murderer) I shouldn't be surprised when I found out he is not really the guy who I think he is. [/Safety precaution.]  

[ST1R]

...after we smoked some of his medi bud (I think THC only?)

Nope. There are always other cannabinoids present in all types of marijuana, even in hemp and ruderalis .

[Mens Rea]

Nope. There are always other cannabinoids present in all types of marijuana, even in hemp and ruderalis .

I can't remember what brand it was (he had just gotten a variety of 11 different medical items), but it was definitely a strand I had never had before, or ever heard the name of.

[x]

Actually, I just remembered an experience I had on weed over a week ago. I had totally forgotten that this happened, but I was over at my b/f's house, and after we smoked some of his medi bud (I think THC only?), I began to get extremely paranoid. So much to the point that I was convinced that my b/f was a professional assassin who was hired to kill my family and feed me a lifetime of angst. As he was being affectionate, I kept thinking in my head, "This is all just a trick! He's trying to make you BELIEVE he's into you!!!"

I didn't respond to him for like 2 or 3 days after that incident too. To this day, I still keep that option open in my head, (that although he is probably not a murderer) I shouldn't be surprised when I found out he is not really the guy who I think he is. [/Safety precaution.]  

Hahaha, thats a bad case of paranoia . I was talking to my younger cousin the other day, he is 18 and in his first longtime move in togeather relationship with his girlfriend. He smokes as much as I do, but she doesnt, and she doesnt really like him doing it either. I have had girlfriends like this in my past and they are great people for bringing on paranoia, so in remebering this I asked him if he has ever gotten stoned before and not seen his girlfriend in front of him who he loves and knows, but some fucked up twisted nut case who he doesn't know and he doesn't know how she got there or what she was doing there, and he just cracked up and said "All the time bro" and we both laughed .

But honestly you sound border line schizophrenic, and if you are getting strong paranoid delusions after two weeks of regular use you sound like a strong candidate for drug related psychosis. Now I know you like to joke about having numerous drug related psychotic episodes in the past, but I racked this up to your vivid imagination . You see why I say this is because my girlfriend actually went through a drug related pschotic episode a couple of years ago, it was a terrible event, and she was hospitalised for quite awhile, she requires heavy medication and is now a paranoid schizophrenic, she can no longer take drugs and our lives are now very restricted . Drug related psychosis is not a funny subject and glorification of it is both naive and destructive . Drugs are a real heavy thing and many are just not cut out for them .

[Noman]

Now I know you like to joke about having numerous drug related psychotic episodes in the past, but I racked this up to your vivid imagination .

No, she's the real deal when it comes to drugs and psychosis. It used to be a hobby of hers.

[x]

No, she's the real deal when it comes to drugs and psychosis. It used to be a hobby of hers.

I thought her hobby was talking shit on the internet.

[foreward]

mmm. CG might be opinionated and annoying at times. But in the end I think she usually makes a few good points. It's just getting there that can be a problem.

[The_MadScientist]

I think it is important to note (as it may have been a cause of CG's skepticism towards strain difference):

1. Black Market = Average Effects
As said previously, what is sold in baggies by dealers is usually a mixed strain.  Mixed strains have a more generalized effect, and thus wider appeal.  Wider appeal means its easier to move, and make $$$.  All weed has variation, but weed from illegal channels tends to be a mixture of effects.  Each strain has different potencies of each cannabinoid, giving each strain a subtle difference in feel.  Some is an average high, some has stronger sativa or indica type effects (or "creeper" - Kermit, nice summary). 

2. Hybrid-Highs are Better Business
-The extremes of pure-sativas and indicas found in medical clubs are generally not found on the black market because of economics: the price breaks that come with picking up larger weight encourage the purchase the works-for-everyone pound for 2/3 the price of 4 QPs of different strains, each with varying appeal to different tastes. 
-Black-market pot purchasers generally have no way to evaluate the particular effects of a strain, unless they smoke a decent amount and wait 10 minutes to come up.  Often, deals are conducted quickly, in-and-out, giving no opportunity to sample the effect profile.  As a result, black market dealers need weed that can satisfy the demands of the general public, especially when selling to new clients.
-Thus, black-market weed tends to be more "average" in effect profile, with less deviance from the average than the diversity offered medically.

3. Variation is Over-Hyped
Now, as said before, every strain has unique characteristics and effects, and sativa or indica dominant weed is not uncommon in the black market.  Each strain has certain dominant cannabinoids and is more sativa or indica-like as a result.  The problem that occurs in black market purchases (especially when shady dealings lead to exaggeration and hyping) is the dealer will say, "Yeah man, this is a super-strong sativa."  His weed is probably roughly 40% indica 60% sativa (somewhat sativa dominant), and he is saying it is "potent" (unreliable indicator of actual potency- conflict of interest).  But, if you get a super-strong sativa from a medical club, it will probably be a pure sativa or close to it, and will have a much different effect than the dealer's. 

In trying to quickly describe product before a sale, dealers may overemphasize sativa or indica dominance, which may have lead CG to think there is no variation in pharmacological effects between strains.  When a "chill dude" gives you "a dub of some bomb sativa", the effects are likely going to be average.  If you expect certain effects and get stoned, placebo comes easy- you will look for sativa effects and find them. Placebo effect can amplify the small variations. Overall though, the effects of the weed will be similar to previous weed obtained illicitly.

Conclusion
-Black market weed's effects tend to be more average (hybrid) in effect as it appeals to a wider audience.
-Sativa-dominance can be misinterpreted as pure-sativa, leading people to construct weak concepts of the differences between the strains.

Back to the Original Post
Crystal - If you only have black-market partially indica or sativa-dominant hybrids as reference points for the strains' effects and no reliable information on the genetic makeup of the strains you obtain, you would be right to question the extent of differentiation.  Because the actual variation between the strains that you have smoked is not large, just 10-20% from an 'even mix', the subjective flexibility of the experience generally overpowers your ability to spot subtle differences in effect.  However, if you get a pure-sativa and a pure-indica from the club, the difference will be apparent.

YOU ARE WELCOME FOR ALL THE TEXT. haha. 

Other thought: besides the (11?) THC-like molecules, the variation in cannabis includes a wide variety of aromatic compounds.  Differences in effect between strains could also result from the plethora of other chemicals in the plant.

[3lbs]

good points, thought i'd add

However, if you get a pure-sativa and a pure-indica from the club, the difference will be apparent.

true sativas and indicas are becoming increasingly rare. neither extremities suit commercial production well, and in general sativas take too long for non tropical environment.

check out the haze line for sativa traits, and the afghani/bubba/og lines for indica.

many weed snobs give the clubs a hard time for mislabeling strains too.