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[The Lycaeum Forums]

 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Visionary Plants (Moderators: Papyrifera, Noman)Topic:
 Ether extraction of cannabinoids

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

Has anyone heard of trying a straight ether extraction on some finely chopped cannabis?  I don't know how well it would work or if there would be differences versus butane or other non-polars but it sounds like a fun experiment to try.

[biosearch]

 I did not like using a high vapor pressure organic solvent like Pet ether or di-ethyl. Too much other junk comes off. ETOH works just fine and does not smell as much. You still get chlorophylls and some other stuff off of the waxy cuticle. You can use activated carbon filter to get rid of some of the junk.
 
.

[pylkko]

I bet butane is more efficient. Dielectric constant at NTP closer to 1 where as ether would be about 4 or something. Ether is also a bitch to handle, as we all know and reeks from miles away.

log P_o/w oh THC = 6.366

[Dr. Suess]

Butane. Good idea if you know how to handle it. I've found NP solvents to work the best for cannibinoids. Worried about other junk?  Yep, activated carbon works good. So does a simple warm water wash w/ subsequent separation. MMMM....Honey Oil.

[ZombieJesus]

I bet butane is more efficient. Dielectric constant at NTP closer to 1 where as ether would be about 4 or something. Ether is also a bitch to handle, as we all know and reeks from miles away.

log P_o/w oh THC = 6.366

Butane extraction is rather simple because you only need some pieces of tube. However, accidents have happened. I remember reading about one death in the Netherlands. You're working with compressed flammable gas afterall.

Edit: no one will ask questions with butane, getting pure ether might raise some attention.

[pharmanimal78]

/Raises hand..

Ether pulls a ton of nasty shit.

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

What does the ether soup come out looking like?  Is it real thick or still a light liquid?  A particular color?

I don't plan on trying it or anything, but I was wondering what it would be like to do ether extraction, try and clean some of the nastys out with H2O or whatever, and then huff the cannabinoids in the ether fumes.      I know the pipe ether extractions come out pretty volatile & light still. 

[biosearch]

Yeah, I suppose you could use a sep funnel  and do a water wash - phase seperate out some of the junk, only problem being some will not phase seperate and ether really is a fucking smelly thing to use.

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

LOL duh... ever try putting some on a rag and huffing it?  After about 10 or so in a night you get dragon fire breath for about 2 days.  But you also get incredibly tore up.  And as I've stated before, mixing with pot results in some psychedelic-type states.  Hence ether-cannabinoid mix might be really cool... if not for the fire breath thing.   

[pharmanimal78]

Ether came out so dark green as to be near black.

That was from 2lb of Trainwreck & white widow trimmings.

Not particularly impressed by the result.

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

Yea an extraction of some type would definitely have been a next route to take.  Whatever dissolves chlorophyll I would try.  I wonder what the final color (if cannabinoids were isolated well) would be to?  Possibly a gold or orange-red-brown?   

[luc]

Pet ether works pretty well, but as said above-- it pulls all the fatty crap and some chlorophylls.  Di-ethyl ether seems to pull everything; considering that and how much more risky using di-ethyl I'd not reccomend it.  Chloroform is supposed to work, but I've no experience with using it.  Ethanol is probably the safest bet.  Butane work REALLLY good, but you should use a drying agent on the plant material to remove all the water since the butane will freeze it reducing yield; a second butane extraction after the plant material has returned to RT has proven worthwhile IME, but if done back-to-back it will pull almost nothing.

[pharmanimal78]

I think the amount of time a given solvent spends in contact with a material also determines how much of what is pulled. That could, in part, explain the results from iso-butane extraction.

Should try this with other solvents. Short exposure times. I'm betting it will increase the ratio of THC to Other.

[luc]

LOL duh... ever try putting some on a rag and huffing it?  After about 10 or so in a night you get dragon fire breath for about 2 days.  But you also get incredibly tore up.  And as I've stated before, mixing with pot results in some psychedelic-type states.  Hence ether-cannabinoid mix might be really cool... if not for the fire breath thing.   

Is dragon fire breath another way of saying rancid cat piss?

[DPP]

I think the amount of time a given solvent spends in contact with a material also determines how much of what is pulled. That could, in part, explain the results from iso-butane extraction.

Should try this with other solvents. Short exposure times. I'm betting it will increase the ratio of THC to Other.

I was thinking this the other day, watching some cats on tv doing the ol' butane trick.  One cat left a batch alone, to allow the butane to run through normally and drip out the bottom.  But then for the other batch the cat let the butane sit in the matter for a short while (10 seconds?).

The control batch produced oil, whereas the test batch produced almost a dusty green solid.  It was definitely oily, but not as potent or tasty.

[biosearch]

I was thinking this the other day, watching some cats on tv doing the ol' butane trick.  One cat left a batch alone, to allow the butane to run through normally and drip out the bottom.  But then for the other batch the cat let the butane sit in the matter for a short while (10 seconds?).

The control batch produced oil, whereas the test batch produced almost a dusty green solid.  It was definitely oily, but not as potent or tasty.

Shit, it is not quantum mechanics. Yea, time, exposure, saturation, surface area of exposed material and solvent, these all play a role but shit, you do not need to bombard it with positrons emissions and x-ray diffraction! Use alcohol-ETOH. It is easy, cheap and will do the trick nicely! Just grind it down to increase area of saturation and exposure. You can do a phase cleaning if you wish. Taking it into a more non-polar solvent then using H2O wash and possibly a mild basic solution to get rid of the garbage. Then do the activated carbon filtration.

[pylkko]

Why? Why would anybody not want unpure oil? A lot of work for a product that you don't even want in the first place...

[Dr. Suess]

The procedure is fairly simple. Patience is a virtue, unless working with butane, which will "disappear" right before your eyes. Do a cold water wash BEFORE NP solvent extraction, and another water wash to further clean your NP solvent. If you come out with something "trashy", then something is not right. Either the plant is not what you thought or your solvents are dirty or you fucked it up....Still have questions? See here....
http://www.lycaeum.org/forum/index.php?topic=26303.0


If they can get a nice result from resin, it should be less difficult to reap from better starting material. I personally like the flavor of some of the "extra" plant compounds, but if discretion is a must, isolation of the oil is great. This will be my last post on cannabinoid extraction, as it seems the boards members are all over the spectrum w/ their opinions on this. Mine - NP extraction works like a charm, IS super clean, IS worth it, WILL have a considerably stronger high due to concentration, AND IN NO WAY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ON PAR WITH ALCOHOL EXTRACTION. Two different ballgames guys.....Start with alcohol, end with something dirtier or put more work into it, and use a NP solvent to further clean it? just start with the NP solvent.

[foreward]

Just for the sake of conjecture, how about this:

I dreamed this up after reading some cock-eyed plan to make extractions using isoprop and a vacuum cleaner.

Take a metal or glass  tube and filter assembly, fill with desired plant material, place on hot plate. Attach one side of the tube to air compressor and the other to an air stone. Place air stone in a small diameter, long tube (think 1/2" PVC) containing ethanol and dry ice (or better yet somehow affix air stone to copper coil and surround with dry ice). Heat to desired vapor point, turn on the air compressor.

Alternatively, could a super saturated saline, supercooled solution be used? If so, any water insoluble goodies would fall/float out of solution, right? No solvents needed. For this, a coil would prob work better.

This might be just daydreams... but would it work?

[pylkko]

Just remember that all the physical properties of solvents change when you leave NTP (normal temperature and pressure). I don't understand your idea at all, but if you use the vacuum to suck solvent through the pipe, you will lower the pressure within the pipe to less than atmospheric, and at the same time lower the flash point of the solvent. It could ignite.

As I said earlier using anything more polar than butane, like ether or alcohols is going to pull out other fractions of the plant then just the cannabinoids which are all very non-polar.

[Noman]

hexane is great too, no high pressure involved, similar results as butane. I've found it consistent that non polar solvents are much more selective for the goods, where the polars grab all the green gunk too. You can wash alcohol based extractions with a little hexane (or naptha, like a spice wash), and it results in a golden/reddish oil that is very pure. This can be economical if you have a large amount of material and alcohol, and small amount of hexane/np solvent. slow evaporation can result in a solid. 

That was the only post in that earlier little bitch session worth saving.

Foreward's question about building a Rotovap has it's own thread in the Alchemist's Den.

This thread is now unlocked and I'm going to request once again of u -
DONT FUCK WITH FORUMS THAT YOU DONT MODERATE!
Once more and I will ask that you stay out of VP and Non VP and we'll see who wins that pissing contest.

I'm really pissed off and feel like a kindergarden teacher for having had to deal with this - people hitting each other over the head with their educations can't even have a discussion without turning into snotty little bitches.

Take it to the Shroomery.

[pylkko]

Which solvents are similar in their polarity and thus in their capability to dissolve any given substance is explained in this thread:
http://www.lycaeum.org/forum/index.php/topic,26955.msg273741.html#msg273741

Using this information you can actually do fractionation of plants without distillation or something like that. If the constnat is similar, so is the solvent when it comes to polarity.

[foreward]

*sigh* it wasn't a rotovap :*(

[pylkko]

Don't expect them to care.

[biosearch]

*sigh* it wasn't a rotovap :*(

Here is simple description:

"A simple rotary evaporator system was invented by Lyman C. Craig. It was first commercialized by the Swiss company Büchi in 1957, and patented in 1964. The Büchi Rotavapor continues to be the most widely used rotary evaporator, so much so that "Rotavap" has become a synonym for such instruments. Other rotary evaporator manufacturers include Heidolph, Yamato, IKA, Stuart, EYELA and INGOS. The most common form is the bench-top unit, though large scale (e.g., 20L-50L) versions are available and are used in pilot plants in commercial chemical operations.
It is used in chemical laboratories for the efficient and gentle removal of solvents from samples by evaporation. When referenced in the chemistry research literature, description of the use of this technique and equipment may include the phrase "rotary evaporator", though use is often rather signaled by other language (e.g., "the sample was evaporated under reduced pressure")." i.e. vacuum.

[pylkko]

Here is simple description:

"A simple rotary evaporator system was invented by Lyman C. Craig. It was first commercialized by the Swiss company Büchi in 1957, and patented in 1964. The Büchi Rotavapor continues to be the most widely used rotary evaporator, so much so that "Rotavap" has become a synonym for such instruments. Other rotary evaporator manufacturers include Heidolph, Yamato, IKA, Stuart, EYELA and INGOS. The most common form is the bench-top unit, though large scale (e.g., 20L-50L) versions are available and are used in pilot plants in commercial chemical operations.
It is used in chemical laboratories for the efficient and gentle removal of solvents from samples by evaporation. When referenced in the chemistry research literature, description of the use of this technique and equipment may include the phrase "rotary evaporator", though use is often rather signaled by other language (e.g., "the sample was evaporated under reduced pressure")." i.e. vacuum.

Yep. And because it wasn't that, it wasn't a rotovap. All the people that actually cared about the device went to talk about it in the thread. You are not threre. Surprise.

[foreward]

Bio- my device works under positive pressure, not vacuum. It is more similar to distillation that to solvent extraction. There was really no need what so ever to post that snippet here, and if you really wanted to prove to u that you know that a rotovac is then you should have pm'd him. But seriously dude, even I know what a rotovac is and how they work, and I have no lab experience.

If you want to discuss my device, by all means head over to the alchemy forum. But I'll be pretty pissed if either of you two destroy that thread being that I put a  lot of thought into the device.

[biosearch]

It was not my intention, I give a rats ass what the dude thinks I know or don't know! There was a question as to what it was and how it might interface with what you wanted to design. I do not need to gain brownie points. I do not think it should be about anyone doing anything else except sharing info. Damn, it was a nice thread.

[pylkko]

There was a question as to what it was and how it might interface with what you wanted to design.

And now the question is only bigger I think to this moment no one except you undertands what you are talking about...

[Noman]

*sigh* it wasn't a rotovap :*(

Sorry bout that
but see
but I was drinking a cup of coffee
before work
and thought
gee
I bet there's something on
the Lycaeum
to brighten my day
but there wasnt
instead there was a pile of shit to clean up
and so I didnt read your post all that thoroughly 
and just made sure that it didn't go into the Trashcan
with all of the other shit.





WHO IN THE FUCK KEEPS LOCKING THIS THREAD?