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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Visionary Chemicals (Moderator: 2a)Topic:
 New MDMA analogues

[pylkko]

Last one I tried was methylone and it was a disapoitment.

Found not one trip report on MDAI, or Bk-MBDB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5,6-Methylenedioxy-2-aminoindane

[ST1R]

Last one I tried was methylone and it was a disapoitment.

Found not one trip report on MDAI, or Bk-MBDB.

What dose?
One has sampled Methylone, MBDB and 4-MMC.
From what I've read Butylone/ bk-MBDB is kinda weak but better than MBDB itself.
From what I've read MDAI is mostly a stimulant, inferior to MMAI.  

As for not finding any reports, u just plain aren't looking!
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bk_mbdb/bk_mbdb.shtml
And bluelight and a few others have master threads and trip reports on MDAI

They each seem to favor either dopamine, noradrenaline? and serotonin in varying ways so....

[pylkko]

Yeah, I meant here of course, or are you saying the lycaemites are so boring that not only is there no discussion on extraction and synth, but no one even fucking uses rip off RC places? 

[ST1R]

Yeah, I meant here of course, or are you saying the lycaemites are so boring that not only is there no discussion on extraction and synth, but no one even fucking uses rip off RC places? 

? What are u asking exactly? u lost me....

[pylkko]

I'll post more when I'm not so fuckig high and the chat is a distraction at this hour at the same time

[3lbs]

I tried 200mg MBDB. I was disappointed, but I was looking for a MDMA experience. Similarities, yes. More of a body load, nystagmus, tremors, w/ far less euphoria, I recall. Not much shift in headspace either. I was on here back then, maybe I posted [goes hunting]

edit - discussed analogs, not actual experience. meme had some good info

http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php/topic,2775.0.html

[2a]

4-MMC is something it seems like I've come across a lot of negative reports on.  People have been reporting a possibly high potential for habituation and craving for it, and potential side effects including temporary neuropathy and bluing of the joints.  It seems like one that should be approached with caution.

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

Why mess around with analogs when you already have perfection?

[pylkko]

Because aquiring your olefin and doing the purifications and oxidations and shit is a pain in the ass? Maybe?

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

Well... how about combining MDAI with a selective norepinephrine transporter blocker to try and recreate the actions of MDMA?

[foreward]

well, regardless of the reason why someone somewhere might want to do something, it's still of interest to the lycaeum to have information like in these posts.

I think we should be less focused on the "why" and more focused on the "that". Let he reader decide if the post has any value...

[pylkko]

I haven't tried MDAI, but I have only heard good of it. Some one was really praising it in chat. So it sounds like something to try. Methylone was like next to nothing untill intra venous administration, then it felt like MDMA for a minute. Went through a gram of that shit...

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

The bluelight thread on it doesn't make it sound too great, at least in comparison to MDMA (the standard).  I have always been interested to see if one can recreate the feeling of MDMA through the use of multiple separate entities targeting the 5-HT and NE systems (as MDMA does both at once).  Of course MDMA's polypharmacology might just be what allows it to be so good in the first place, that is it could be using for instance its ability to block one transporter to influence the way it interacts with the other, or even the way neurotransmitters are dumped back onto the synapse where "the magic" (ie being super high) could be a result of some unknown cross-talk-type factors.  I'm not sure what specific NE-transporter blocker would be good to use however MDAI certainly sounds like it would get the 5-HT part of the job done.

[pylkko]

Does it really matter, the shit you buy on the street most likely isn't even MDMA, but could be anything from MDA, MDEA, MDE, meth, RC or combo of them all. Some pills even have shit like dxm and caffeine. Either you make MDMA yourself, analytically verify it or stop being so purist about it, right?

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

Haha man remember I don't live in the EU!!!

And also remember that I have a belt full of chemical experience around my waist and I know what is what.  Plus you are talking to someone, who like you, has an actual college education (in the sciences of all things) and isn't just some schmuck running around asking for random pills from corner dealers.  Some people purposely avoid pills for the very reasons you listed.

I'm not trying to be some "purist" guy, I just think the MDMA-induced experience is about as good as we can currently get with psychedelics so I'd rather not waste my time with much else.  So if we can find an easy way to recreate the experience through alternative chemicals then why not go for it?

[pharmanimal78]

u: Purifying the olefin is easy now. Throw a chunk of dry ice in the container of oil & the whole thing freezes except about 10-20% of the mass. Pour it off, thaw, refreeze. Save a seed crystal to recrystallize the whole mass again.

Rinse
wash
repeat...

Do this about 4 times at your leisure & you wide up with almost totally pure olefin. Distill from there if you like. Someone I heard of personally likes to & from 1L of raw one obtained about 850ml of pure olefin when distilled under full vacuum for about 8 hours.

[pylkko]

Haha man remember I don't live in the EU!!!

What the fuck does that mean? All the info on the net about the contents of ecstasy tablets is from the US...

And also remember that I have a belt full of chemical experience around my waist and I know what is what.  Plus you are talking to someone, who like you, has an actual college education (in the sciences of all things) and isn't just some schmuck running around asking for random pills from corner dealers.  Some people purposely avoid pills for the very reasons you listed.

UHM, unfortunately that gives very little understanding in clandenstine chemistry. One can easily study biochemistry for ever and buy whatever of the street without ever even understanding how MDMA is made or what it is. Experience under belt is not analytical chemistry. For example, assuming that one day you would want for some reason to see whether something you bought contains any MDMA, do you have any idea of what method you could use to do that, uni student?

I'm not trying to be some "purist" guy, I just think the MDMA-induced experience is about as good as we can currently get with psychedelics so I'd rather not waste my time with much else.  So if we can find an easy way to recreate the experience through alternative chemicals then why not go for it?

What ever. I think MDA kicks MDMA ass any day.

p.s i  came off DMT today, and damn it is hard to write. I get this often, a sort of "hangover"... interesting. What do we learn: dr000gz are bad.

[pylkko]

u: Purifying the olefin is easy now. Throw a chunk of dry ice in the container of oil & the whole thing freezes except about 10-20% of the mass. Pour it off, thaw, refreeze. Save a seed crystal to recrystallize the whole mass again.

Rinse
wash
repeat...

Do this about 4 times at your leisure & you wide up with almost totally pure olefin. Distill from there if you like. Someone I heard of personally likes to & from 1L of raw one obtained about 850ml of pure olefin when distilled under full vacuum for about 8 hours.

I didn't actualyl even know that, distilling is a hassle, but then again so is that. Not saying that it's not worth it.

[foreward]

just some schmuck running around asking for random pills from corner dealers

HEY! Just because I never finished my degree in photography ....

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

It means the EU has been riddled with supposed "MDMA pills" that turn out to be nasty shit chemicals like piperazines that no one wants.  See bluelight.ru for more information/stories/examples.  It was my impression that the problems there with dirty pills were much worse than in the US.  

As for methods... I took more courses in each subject of organic, inorganic, analytical and physical chemistry than biochemistry as an undergrad.  Now I make peptides in a dirty ass chemistry lab.  I'm not some yeast biochem crony whose hardest job is to order restriction enzymes or try to fit as much in 1 autoclave run as possible each week.  So please at least ask a little harder question next time, you know, one that doesn't require me to answer by saying "You mix a tad bit of material in a small container with a little marquis reagent and observe the color change."  

[pylkko]

hmm, I wonder how well marquis reagent works with messy pill mixtures?

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

You just won't give up huh?

[pylkko]

No, I've never tried marquis reagent with mixtures, have you? How does it compare to a sample of pure MDMA? Are there compounds that could affect the validity of the test that we should know of? You begged me to treat you like an expert because of all your high leve education and experience. Now I'm asking for expert knowledge on how to properly conduct this test.

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq_testing_kits.shtml

I had a few pills once that were reported to be meth + MDMA.  They turned orange/red in the marquis test (don't remember the exact color).  Possibly they had a low MDMA content and thus the color was masked.  I ended up dissolving them in water and discarding the precipitate.  But I rarely mess with pills these days anyways so I really don't have much experience with it anymore.  I've seen numerous positives at festivals.  Like I said though, assuming one is not buying from crappy dealers, they shouldn't encounter major issues on this end and since I've tended to not associate with crappy dealers in my life I just don't have that much experience with crap pills. 

PS: I didn't beg you for anything.

[pylkko]

Marquis reagent, however, cannot discriminate between MDMA, MDA, MDE or MDEA. In cases I hear, it might be difficult even to tell apart DXM and MDMA especially when they are in combination.

[Papyrifera]

Last one I tried was methylone and it was a disapoitment.

Methylone is pretty much garbage. One tried it out quite a bit, going through three grams over a year and a half or so. It was more similar to straight stimulants (eg cocaine) than to MDMA. It only feels good for until you peak with for one was 45-60 minutes or oral doses or 30-45 minutes for insufflated doses. The rest of the high is just an uncomfortable anxious stimulant feeling akin to amphetamine or cocaine. Very more-ish, strong desires to redose often indulged in. Redosing doesn't really get you back to the first enjoyable come-up, but it does prolong the comedown.

The most comfortable doses for one were small, 75-125 mg. At this level it was not too harsh on the body, mostly dehydration. Coming down would be tolerable, not too anxious feeling as long as one did not redose. The day after one would feel okay or even on afterglow. At higher doses the effects shifted. Over 150 mg for one began to evidence more body load such as jaw clenching, and feelings of heart pounding and raised blood pressure. At higher doses, the nervous anxious feeling when coming down was more noticeable, and desire to redose stronger. Methylone was disinhibiting and one would not remember why not to redose, long past the point of moderation and reason.

The highest dose one took was something stupid like 600-700 mg, not all at once but spread over the course of a few hours and by a combination of oral and insufflated doses, trying to keep that constant euphoric "rising" feeling of onset. The last 300 mg one took orally with 20 mg of 2C-I, and when it came on one was in an intricately visionary but paranoid mindstate. Constantly hearing what sounded like people's voices right behind, when nobody was there. +++ tripping and freaked out. There was a strange aftereffect from such a high dose - a "second wave" came over one several hours into the experience, when both the 2C-I and methylone should have been well into decline. One thought that perhaps the methylone at this high of a dose was being metabolized into MDA, because that was the feeling almost exactly. Very rushy and a little intoxicating. There were definate visual patternings. All told one was high for about 12 hours and did not feel normal the day after. There were definate negative effects for one, due to the stimulant nature of the drug. The rise in heart rate and blood pressure is worrying. Strongly disrecommended.

[DJPants]

sounds like og mdma is the best still

[foreward]

^^ or we are comparing substitutes with the original. I think a lot of people do that with JWH and WIN series substances. When people do this, it's easier to notice how they differ, yet in my experience 018 is, while pretty different from cannabis in the more subtle features, is by itself a pretty useful and enjoyable material.

Once I had a friend who had a pretty rough DXM experience. She asked if shrooms were any "better". I told her that they are different, that there is less body load - but I am unsure if shrooms are "better" than DXM or any other visionary substance.

I think we have these holy grail experiences and substances that we all compare everything else to, instead of appreciating the experience for what it is.

[2a]

agreed.  it gets frustrating when people think trip is trip is trip.  They want to know what 2c-e is like so they try to call it things like synthetic-mescaline or a cross between XTC and LSD, I think I've probably heard the term "tripstasy" thrown around before too.  Other people have outright dismissed the qualitative differences between the 2C's and other's, saying things like "they all take you to the same place."  To me, the differences in flavor are something to be celebrated and utilized to tweak the type of trip you're in the mood for and get the most out of your experience instead of just generalizing "trip as trip" or a "roll as a roll."