next »

[The Lycaeum Forums]

 The Lycaeum Forums » Integrate » Spirituality and Philosophy (Moderators: psilocyborg, Narkissos)Topic:
 thoughts at the end

[spencer wallace]

Dieing is something so distant and far removed that it's difficult to imagine honestly. General intuition suggests that death is not something that is likely to happen to you any time soon.

It's possible to make claims about how you might deal with this or that as the end becomes imminent, but deep down you know that you don't know how you will deal. You don't know how you will stay together or fall apart.

Life lived is an experience of overlapping ambitions and distractions that keep us going. Approaching the precipice of the end is a terrifying release from obligation to these ambitions. Here is a place where true reflection can happen. The perception of being near death is one that cuts through bullshit to your naked core. You have to face yourself for good or bad and feel. One way or the other, was living all you thought it was going to be. Now that you are powerless to do anything more, was there more you should have done.

I've had a few run ins. "I'm a goddamn idiot and I've poisoned myself with some ridiculous chemical fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck" has happened more times than I'd like to admit. I've also had similar fears hiking mountains when things didn't go as planned and the prospect of being injured with no hope of rescue became plausible.

I'm curious. People here must have experienced the mental approach to an assumed death. What sorts of thoughts run through your head in that space? Can someone actually seek the experience without tainting the results? Does the perspective change you permanently?

[porcupine]

i just start getting down for real

[porcupine]

i start believing what ive always wanted, and abandoning the old stories of what is what, and then i usually conk out cuz of the peacefulness for a bit, and i always come to in some nice and beautiful place, where i know i'll be safe forever andd in harmony:)

[whateveryouwantmetobe]

If something does happen, you could only be mad at yourself for not doing enough right?  That's all the more reason to aspire to your ambitions while you can.

[pylkko]

either that or being mad at self when realizing that you've been asspiring to wrong ambitions. 

[Narkissos]

I did a massive and recklessly irresponsible dose of 5-meo-DMT...no scales or mg's for sure, but considering the size of the line I'd estimate between 35-50mg. Railed it. Fuck.

I really thought I was dying. I didn't know at the time what the danger level of the drug was. I'm not going to try and describe what happened in my head, because that is all mine...but I will say that I thought I was dying and was subsequently reborn, repeatedly, for what seemed like and eternity. When you repeatedly come to terms with thinking you are about to die it puts some things into perspective.

[Moo]

"Prepare to see what it is like to die a thousand times!" croaks the frog to the man who tried to eat him.

And look, us humans, loving the frog so much, discovered how to just go ahead and make our own! 

Can someone actually seek the experience without tainting the results? 

"Seek the experience...."  Seek which experience?  Near death, or death?

[parlerlibre]

from the day that you are born... you are dying. people often forget that or take it for granted. we all do it. but the things i saw, and what i felt and thought about and heard when i was so close to crossing that divide... was unlike anything, yet it was everything I've ever experienced. comparable to my first mushroom trip... in that it was intensely spiritual. when i came "out of it" i was changed. not better, or worse: just changed. i see everyday as another chance to live... really live. to tell the people you care about, how much you love them. life is fucking short... and you never know when you're going to get to the end of the ride.

[mirrorman]

my kind of topic.  i know he was crazy and a pathological liar but castaneda put forth the idea of using our personal death as an advisor.  to help us live properly.  not a morose thing just a constant awareness that the moment could come for us at literally anytime.  a heroic dose can put us in line for when we slip.  we may be the only animals with an awareness of our death.  it'll put a spring in your step.  no matter how bad things get find solace knowing that your final moment hasnt arrived yet.  when things are good know that it can all be taken away just like that.  it produces a type of sobriety.

[cloud9]

After hallucinating me and all my friends being shredded by a firework on a hefty dose of LSD, I have never been the same.  Even 14 years later.  Oh man those first couple years, I REALLY appreaciated life, that feeling has slipped some, but I can still remember what it is like to KNOW you are dying in a very terrible way.

[OctopusRex]

preparing for a "good death" is what I am all about.

[gorfehttimrek]

I've done ALOT of nothing with my life.   Lots and lots and lots of activities that ultimately, don't amount to shit.

I now want to leave something behind.  Something solid and concrete, that won't disintegrate like my corpreal form will.  At least something that will last as long as I did...

For my grandchildren.  It is this drive that has sent me off into my new distraction of building something in my shop.  It is this drive that has caused me to listen to music much less often, and to not read as much.  Things I used to do "for myself, for my enjoyment" have become things I do for others.  I feel happier giving my last $10 to my grandson, and enjoying his happiness as he travels with 'grandpa' to the toy store to pick out a cheap plastic toy.  In days past I would have ranted that the toy was worthless and the child should be playing with 'educational' toys.   Funny, how life changes us.  I now enjoy just seeing children play, not wanting to direct or teach necessarily, just watch.  Like it is the most natural thing in the world, an my views on certain subjects have changed as well, because IT IS the most natural thing in the world.  WE age and we become naturally the guardians and protectors of the so called 'traditional family values'.  It is this fact that is mostly responsible for the conflicts between young and old lifestyle values.  When someone old tells you, " you'll understand when you are my age"...Believe them my young friends, believe them.


Kermit

[The Sardonic Tech]

I snipped those bitches so kids are out!

With that being said I am going to enjoy life for myself and my woman. We will approach death having dealt with bullshit and will die with either a lethal injection of some drug or another or die a horrific death in an accident. I will not grow old and have some fucker putting shit up my ass or dickhole. Telling me we need to biopsy that or this. I have been in medicine long enough to know I don't want intervention.

So yeah lots of nothing leaving nothing. Meaning of my life= Make people around me as happy as I can. Me being the one that likes to please and all.

I don't fear death I have seen it on a weekly basis and came way to close to it. I just enjoy what I have.

[fat bunnies]

"Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day, when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears, and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one's master. And every day, without fail, one should consider himself as dead."

"It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this."

"Even if one's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should be able to do one more action with certainty. With martial valor, if one becomes like a revengeful ghost and shows great determination, though his head is cut off, he should not die."

"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the moment. A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one fully understands the present moment, there is nothing left to do, and nothing else to pursue."

[starshadow]

Dieing is something so distant and far removed that it's difficult to imagine honestly.

Indeed, it's a bit like attitude questionnaires, yes, we can answer them, but in the absence of experience there's still that lingering 1% doubt "what would I actually do compared to what I think I'd like to do?"

I've had several run-ins with my death, some real, some not (as in, jeez this is it, but only to turn out a false alarm or misperception of the situation), and each time it's been an instant of heart-thumping, adrenaline rushing, hair-raising panic and horror... Except.

Except this response has only occurred in extreme physical situations (eg, falling of a cliff, split-second NDE accidents on the motorway); whereas the couple of times I thought I was having a terminal heart prob, I sort of relaxed into it as ok, if this is it I want to go out as aware as I can and with some degree of serenity.

My attitude certainly has changed toward death in recent years, and as it's done so so has my attitude to life, a sense of just letting things be at the personal level. This attitude doesn't extend toward politician's and other criminals 

I don't fear the afterdeath thing, if there is such a thing or not, but I certainly am concerned re my manner of passing. I just hope it isn't too agonizing or horrific. I also know that if I'm facing a vegetable future of intubation etc, or a long-drawn out terminal disease I'm going for the  death-with-dignity approach. In fact my wife and I have a firm pact on this. I just hope I have the courage to make my own exit should this occur.

Also, I know for some time I've had the idea of "honouring death" floating in the background of my head. I'm not clear what this means yet, but it does have something to do with death not being the opposite of life, but part of life. And also part of my own attempt to counteract the pervasive denial-of-death that is such a feature of western culture.

Although it's great poem I'm in about the opposite camp to the "rage rage against the dying of the light" camp. But that's prob because I remain unconvinced that the light dies... 

[WeeDie]

When the light dies, it is resurrected instantaneously, because time is a function of light and not a function of non-being. No time passes from the moment everything ceases to exist, to the moment everything appears again.

[pshmell]

"After all, the problem of 'What happens to me when I die?' is like asking 'What happens to my fist when I open my hand?' or 'What happens to my lap when I stand up?' "
-Alan Watts

Life is life only because we define it in contrast to death.

The matter that makes up my body is evolving in a pattern of interaction some may call "alive". When I close my finger on my palm, the matter making up my hand is arranged in such a pattern that some may call "fist". Nothing last forever.

[WeeDie]

The universe lasts forever, but only because it IS, at the same moment it is gone. This is the same thing as saying it doesn't last at all, which is also true because everything changes.

Consciousness is an act of relationships, part memory, formed by stimuli. When consciousness ceases, nothing is gone, for the body lives forever. In one form or the other. You might not be aware, but I'd say it's a fairly scientific: You don't need a soul to be born in heaven.

[evil_goat]

here's my last thought:

Fucking shit! I'm gonna die! This fucking sucks! oh well. . .

Question: does the universe cease to exist when you die?

[Gnome]

here's my last thought:

Fucking shit! I'm gonna die! This fucking sucks! oh well. . .

Question: does the universe cease to exist when you die?

It ceases to exist for you, maybe.

If EVERYONE died, would the universe cease to exist? But is a snail's nervous system enough to keep the universe existing if all other living creatures died? If ALL living creatures died, would the universe cease to exist? If only all "intelligent" (Those inverted commas are some pretty sarcastic inverted commas alright) creatures passed on to that great big feast on that pink fluffy cloud, would that mean since no one had the mental capacity to even wonder why things exist, that everything would go *ploinkyzyllarrrkifruumpinyesnoyes* and cease to be?

If you walk into a shrinking-machine then, with potentially endless amount of shrinkage (Not talking about dicks in cold water here), increasing every second to make a subject shrink exponentially for all eternity, would you die? When would you go *plopzy*, for that is the sound I imagine would come in such a case, and disappear? Only, of course, to reappear inside a black hole for a final *groovinkipfooweehee* and get sucked into that next universe, for you would have to go SOMEWHERE?!?!?!?!?!?!

Here's one for all you science geeks: If all is energy and energy never disappears but only changes form; is there no type of energy to assign life? If a single cell on a table is called "living", what makes that cell alive? Why is not a river alive? The river consists of micro-systems of water molecules, why is this not a living thing?
You will probably tell me of the complex processes that takes place within all living creatures that enables a living thing to LIVE, but aren't there equally complicated processes taking place in other arrangements of molecules and atoms that are not called "life"? And what about when you chop an atom in half and peek inside?! And then think again of our poor eternally-shrinking man, would he be hopping around inside an atom at one point with all the quarks and doohickeyronies inside?

Fuck this, I'm just gonna jump out the window and find out once and for all while the rest of you sit here and pick my post apart and argue about who is right 

[spencer wallace]

If a single cell on a table is called "living", what makes that cell alive? Why is not a river alive? The river consists of micro-systems of water molecules, why is this not a living thing?

I can present to you a transitional series of shapes between a circle and a square. And there is a valid perspective in which to say both are the same thing. We most commonly relate to an arbitrary perspective in which they are different because it is useful and practical for defining (and consequently doing) many amazing things.

And for the same reason you're right, if it is life that keeps the universe existing, there is certainly no non-arbitrary boundary that defines it. As long as the universe exists, the universe exists.

[Gnome]

I can present to you a transitional series of shapes between a circle and a square. And there is a valid perspective in which to say both are the same thing. We most commonly relate to an arbitrary perspective in which they are different because it is useful and practical for defining (and consequently doing) many amazing things.

And for the same reason you're right, if it is life that keeps the universe existing, there is certainly no non-arbitrary boundary that defines it. As long as the universe exists, the universe exists.

You know I did jump, and for some reason I "landed" in a wormhole that dumped me right back in my bed. Tell me, did the Universe just tell me something or did I die and go to that great feast? Where's the chicken?!

Just for the heck of it, I'd like to hear your ideas on that of a life from a flatlander's point of "view". Is life possible for a flatlander? How does a flatlander breathe? Does he inhale flat oxygen molecules? 
To be a flatlander on LSD! Oh joy!

[pharmanimal78]

There's an interesting book out there called How We Die. Worth a read.

http://blogs.sun.com/syw/resource/howwedie.jpg

I just hope it's like the K hole.

Here's to a long life and a merry one
A quick death and an easy one
A pretty girl and an honest one
A cold beer and another one!
~Author Unknown

[farmerjack]

Here's to a long life and a merry one
A quick death and an easy one
A pretty girl and an honest one
A cold beer and another one!
~Author Unknown

I'll bet the author was Irish.

[ST1R]

Question: does the universe cease to exist when you die?

If a tree falls on a mime, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[evil_goat]

seriously, i know it sounds a little stupid at first, but think about it.  Of course, if someone else dies, *I* don't cease to exist. (do I?) So you could say we're all each in our own universe, and there isn't a single universe unifying everything.

I'll try to answer this question with some help from ol' p. cubensis.  I should have enough time this weekend.  I shall retrieve the answer from the depths of mushroom land and bring it back for the enlightenment of mankind.  Way more fun than starving myself and sitting under a bodhi tree, right? 

[Noman]

I just read this on Erowid and feel that it's appropriate.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=80765

[x]

Resignation.

[Gnome]

seriously, i know it sounds a little stupid at first, but think about it.  Of course, if someone else dies, *I* don't cease to exist. (do I?) So you could say we're all each in our own universe, and there isn't a single universe unifying everything.

I'll try to answer this question with some help from ol' p. cubensis.  I should have enough time this weekend.  I shall retrieve the answer from the depths of mushroom land and bring it back for the enlightenment of mankind.  Way more fun than starving myself and sitting under a bodhi tree, right?  

Of course (Or not). No one disputes that (Or they do). My humble point being: if you take the perception = existance stance and look at the different creatures capable of perception, and you kill all of them, that's when the perception = existance logic fails. And because of that (This is where it gets interesting), one might raise the issue: What is perception? What is life? What is intelligence? What is logic? Etc ad infinitum.

If a mime cums, does he make a sound?

We can postulate on this all we want but a few facts remain.

Even during a breakthrough our hearts are pumping blood through our brains and it continues to function - somewhat

Upon death the heart and brain stop

Nobody comes back to tell us about what happens then.

So we're stuck.

SOB! I meant to hit the quote button not the modify.  Apologies Gnome. fj

[Audiophile]

I just hope it's like the K hole.

My guess would be more like a DMT breakthrough without an end