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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Visionary Chemicals (Moderator: 2a)Topic:
 RC Hospitalizations and Deaths

[necronomic_shaman]

actually some dealer where I use to live sold 5-meo-amt and 2C-i as japanese mushroom powder.  I couldn't believe someone would sell something as harsh and unfriendly as 5-meo-amt under the disguise of something as benign and forgiving as mushrooms.  Needless to say, quite a few kids were hospitalized with luckily no deaths or permanent damage, aside from HPPD.  I believe the dosages were eyeballed and ranged anywhere from 10 to20mg.  He was telling people to take three.  I guess greed sometimes outweighs the value of human life. sickening.

[DrYRHead]

There have been a few cases of 5-MeO-AMT    sold as LSD that killed a few people. Greed  is, indeed, a terrible thing.

[farmerjack]

I take some comfort from the idea that the number of od's is small, relative to the numbers of people doing Research. It's kind of like guns, factor out the criminal use (meaning: theft of life or property with malice and aforethought) and there are are very small number of death/injuries from them , therefore IMHO not a justification for outlawing them.

The fact of the matter is some people are just too friekin stupid to stay alive, and if it weren't for the drugs would probably die young of something else. Sad but true, but again, the numbers are small.

[Moo]

All one has to do is read to get the information.  People must get directions with these newer drugs.  Just as with any drug someone has not had, they need to be told the directions, and then go form there, begin tailoring dose to their own specifications.

Somewhat off topic of tryptamine analogs: I recently encountered a girl who had taken coriciden.  She had no idea what DXM was or that the particular product which she was taking has an anticholinergic chemical in there which has proven fatal.  No idea, so I told her.  Just an example of downright ignorance among people, and taking the chance whenever possible to minimizing risks people may take by giving knowledge in person.  Hopefully people read up on their drugs before they use them, but so many don't, and it is a damned shame when they get into the wrong hands.  This is all common knowledge here though, with one thing only needing to be said: Inform those who are not informed, and if a person is too dense or shallow or any where in between, then don't let them start an epidemic of ignorance.

[2a]

most people think acid comes in different kinds, because they rarely ever get real LSD and don't realize that its only one molecule.  to them its just "trip," and that's what they all call all psychedelics they get.  All the 2Cs are just "mescaline." Most people have no idea that each of these is its own drug with its own attributes and risks, side-effects, and contraindications.

[DrYRHead]

I take some comfort from the idea that the number of od's is small, relative to the numbers of people doing Research. It's kind of like guns, factor out the criminal use (meaning: theft of life or property with malice and aforethought) and there are are very small number of death/injuries from them , therefore IMHO not a justification for outlawing them.

The fact of the matter is some people are just too friekin stupid to stay alive, and if it weren't for the drugs would probably die young of something else. Sad but true, but again, the numbers are small.

Yep, same types that try to chug a whole liter of hard liqueur in one hour.

[shaman.life3]

I would imagine that a large problem with the deaths was the diet ingested before and possibly after ingesting the AMT. AMT is a MAOI, which means that it will stop the production of the Mono Amine Oxidise amine, which helps digest things such as cheese, beer, and other such fermented products. Ingesting such products with a MAOI in your system, could cause toxicisity, and even death.

[Egor]

AMT is a weak Maoi at best

[ST1R]

I would imagine that a large problem with the deaths was the diet ingested before and possibly after ingesting the AMT. AMT is a MAOI, which means that it will stop the production of the Mono Amine Oxidise amine, which helps digest things such as cheese, beer, and other such fermented products. Ingesting such products with a MAOI in your system, could cause toxicisity, and even death.

I hadn't heard of any AMT related deaths that involved only AMT.
As Egor said AMT is at best a very weak maoi < passionflower even.

[Moo]

I would imagine that a large problem with the deaths was the diet ingested before and possibly after ingesting the AMT. AMT is a MAOI, which means that it will stop the production of the Mono Amine Oxidise amine, which helps digest things such as cheese, beer, and other such fermented products. Ingesting such products with a MAOI in your system, could cause toxicisity, and even death.

Regarding the red part: MAOIs act by stopping activity of monoamine oxidase, preventing the breakdown of monoamine neurotransmitters.

Related:

In the 1960's there was quite a bit of interest at a couple of pharmaceutical houses in the indole analogues of amphetamine. Both the alpha-methylated tryptamine (AMT) and the alpha-ethylated homologue (AET) were found to be effective monoamine oxidase inhibitors, and both were clinically studied as potential antidepressants. The ethyl compound became a commercial drug, offered by the Upjohn Company as Monase, but now is considered to be without medical use and is a Schedule I drug. It is interesting that this methyl compound, AMT was also a medically available antidepressant in the Soviet Union in the 1960's and was sold under the name of Indopan, in 5 and 10 milligram tablets. (pg 567)

Excerpt from TiHKAL

Here is the AMT FAQ for more about AMT in particular.

[Papyrifera]

Moo beat me to the TIHKAL quote but I'll just add that combining AMT with MDMA, amphetamines, DXM etc. could cause serious health problems or overdoses, due to overstimulation and/or serotonin syndrone.

[necronomic_shaman]

Just a little foot note.  During my research over the summer there was a few cases of gerbils mixing aMT and Amphetamines (dextro-amp and methyl-amp) with no problems.  It is most definatley an Maoi, they can show you evidence of that, but is it strong enough for that to be a concern when talking about overdoses? 

[Moo]

Here is a link to a related thread, apparent 2C-T-2 OD:
http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php/topic,24395.0.html

[Organic]

Bromo-dragonfly: two overdoses, one death, several lost digits.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death3.shtml

Of course, absent any reliable information on the dose, this is only marginally useful. The speculation on the part of the writers of 5-10 milligrams is very speculative; who can say how much powder a wet finger will pick up? Could have been 5-10mgs, also could have been 200mgs.

In any case, if the finger-lickin' story is true, those two guys were also being incredibly stupid. Fortune cookie for them: "It is possible that your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others."

[2a]

stupidity kills, people.  stupidity kills.

here's the text:

Bromo-Dragonfly Death and Hospitalization in Sweden
by Erowid, Suave, and Abrad
v1.0 Aug 16, 2008
According to news reports1,2 and one journal article3, one Danish man was hospitalized and another was killed by toxic effects of bromo-dragonfly in September, 2007. Pers Ståhl, 35, suffered convulsions, liver and kidney failure, and lost several fingers and toes, while his unnamed friend died within hours of taking the substance.

The two men reportedly ordered bromo-dragonfly from an internet vendor and took an unknown amount one evening. One of the men had previously taken bromo-dragonfly, while the other had not.

The two were found the next morning by Ståhl's brother. Ståhl was deeply disoriented and could not use his legs, and his friend was dead.

Ståhl was taken to the hospital, where he was awake but disoriented. He had no memory of the night before, and suffered from low blood pressure, pronounced chills, and poor blood oxygenation. His condition deteriorated and he experienced convulsions and difficulty breathing. He was administered 5 mg diazepam (IV) and norepinephrine (IV). He sufferred from respiratory and metabolic acidosis, which were successfully treated with assisted respiration and fluid replacement.

A urine sample taken on admission was later found to contain traces of bromo-dragonfly. Ståhl could not say how much they had taken. Erowid has received an unconfirmed report that they may have measured the dose by licking a fingertip and dipping it into a bag of bromo-dragonfly powder. If this is correct, this would probably deliver a dose many times greater than the threshold of activity, which is reported to be less than one milligram. (see Bromo-Dragonfly Dosage)

Ståhl showed severely inhibited circulation, and on the second day he began to show discoloration of the extremities and the nose.

Over the next few days he developed acute liver failure and renal failure. His liver failure was short-lived, and his kidneys responded favorably to treatment over the next three weeks.

Ståhl was administered nitroglycerin infusions, calcium inhibitors, ACE inhibitors, and prostacyclin analogues to dilate blood vessels. None of these treatments had any visible effect.

On his ninth day in the hospital, gangrene was detected in one foot.

Seven weeks after his admittence, the fingers of Ståhl's left hand and several toes had to be amputated.

Ståhl has been released from the hospital and appears to be back in good health.

It is believed that the circulator problems Ståhl experienced were caused by bromo-dragonfly's vasoconstrictive properties. That is, bromo-dragonfly can cause blood vessels in the extremeties to constrict, reducing blood flow to the limbs.

Bromo-dragonly's vasocontrctive effects are believed to be caused by prolonged stimulation of Alpha-1 adregenic receptors in the limbs. Activation of local serotonin receptors in blood vessels can also result in vasocontriction, and bromo-dragonfly is known to be a serotonin agonist.

Bromo-dragonfly's pharmacology has not been well-studied, and its effects are in part extrapolated from research on long-lasting phenethylamine hallucinogens such as DOB4.

This case is particularly troubling, owing to the possibility that the men consumed a relatively small dose of bromo-dragonfly. If they did in fact measure a bromo-dragonfly dose by licking a finger and putting it in a bag of powder, this could have produced a dose on the order of 5-10 mg, roughly ten to twenty times the minimum effective dose of bromo-dragonfly. This is probably larger than what most informed persons would intentionally take for a recreational dose, but not vastly larger - particularly for a material that is active in very small amounts (less than a single milligram). Such small quantities of material can be difficult to accurately measure.



References #

   1. Kållberg A.. "Drogen tog hans hand [The Drug Took Him By the Hand]". KvällsPosten. Apr 23 2008.
   2. Johansson L. "Ny drog leder till dödsfall och amputationer [New drug leads to deaths and amputations]". Skånskan. Apr 22, 2008.
   3. Thorlacius K, Borna C, Personne M. "Bromo-dragonfly--livsfarlig missbruksdrog [Bromo-dragon fly--life-threatening drug. Can cause tissue necrosis as demonstrated by the first described case]". Läkartidningen. 2008 Apr 16-22;105(16):1199-200.
   4. Bowen JS, Davis GB, Kearney TE, Bardin J. "Diffuse vascular spasm associated with 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine ingestion". Publication Name. JAMA. 1983 Mar 18;249(11):1477-9.

Revision History #

    * version 1.0 - Aug 16, 2008 - Erowid draft, based in part on Suave's translations from Swedish. Psilo reviewed pharmacological information.

[ST1R]

Sounds like Darwin award material to me.
What a couple of dumbfucks!
I don't wish for people to die but some people won't respect something till it kills someone.
This reminds me of the paraplegic that died after taking a "tongue print" of 5-MeO-aMT.

[pharmanimal78]

Mis edit: Removing some DOM comment that I probably shouldn't put here...   

[Moo]

 
WOWZERS! A big thumb down for this.
If they really did lick their finger and dip it in, I bet they would've got as much as 50mg on there, too.  But no way would they have done this right!?  Of course they must have had some idea of doseage.... no? Arghh. 


Anyway.... I wonder if DOM is in any way Domineering... 

[DrYRHead]

The idiots did thumb prints of it. Now one is dead,  and the other lost some digits.    If a regular dose is 300ug, then they may have easily done like 10 to 50 dosages of it via a finger dip in a bag.    Of course, one reason things like this happen, is because these things can not legally be sold in standardized dosages. They also do not tend to come with instructions, either. 

[sinned]

http://www.thelocal.se/16366/20081215/

Teenager dies of 'net drug' overdose

Published: 15 Dec 08 17:32 CET


An 18-year-old girl has died in Stockholm after overdosing on mephedrone, a drug that until now has been freely available for purchase on the internet.

After the girl's death at Karolinska University Hospital on Sunday afternoon, Swedish authorities took immediate steps to ban the drug, with the handling of mephedrone classified as a criminal offence as of Monday, December 15th.

The 18-year-old and some friends took the substance in combination with cannabis on Friday night. An ambulance was soon called to Bandhagen in south Stockholm after the girl went into convulsions and turned blue in the face, Svenska Dagbladet reports.

The dangerous stimulant can attack vital organs and is often likened to a cross between cocaine and ecstasy. As it smells of seafood, the substance is referred to by users in Sweden as 'krabba' (crab).

[ST1R]

Holy crap its sinned!
Good ta see ya back mang!

[lovemaster]

sorry, its a joke these people are wasting good rc's when they could be used by a real mind.  it is important to get record this info, of course.

[2a]

if that a was serious post, please edit it to provide an actual account with real information.  This thread is not intended for sarcasm but for real accounts of medical and health emergencies resulting from ingestion of research chemicals and discussion regarding said events.


{edit}
truspurfan: Thank you! 

[spencer wallace]

I'm not sure I get some of the responses here. Did people who did thumbprints of acid know it was safe? How do you really know? Isn't this just inevitable daredevil data gathering, tragic as it may be? If dosage limits weren't known before, a few stunts later, they will be.

Pushing the limits of a drug is inevitable. Regulation would not have avoided this outcome. The internet, with the ability to share consequences of behaviours, can stop certain situations from recurring over and over again.