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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Visionary Plants (Moderators: Papyrifera, Noman)Topic:
 Nymphaea vs. Nelumbo; Exploring the Sacred Lotus

[Papyrifera]

A little vinegar might help extract the lotus alkaloids but wouldn't make a difference for the Calea or Tagetes. To evaporate the vinegar you just leave the pot on a gentle boil till any vinegar smell/taste is gone. I don't know whether prolonged boiling will start to break down some of the active ingredients but keeping the heat as low as possible during this process isn't a bad idea.

[psilocyborg]

Actually, I don't think I'll bother extracting the lotus.  I was thinking of making a red wine infusion instead.  How many grams of flowers do you suppose would go in a bottle of wine, enough so that a single glass of wine would be potent in itself?

[DrYRHead]

What about an acid?  I seem to remember your reports using acetic acid (vinegar) to help dissolve mescaline from peruvian torch.  I also seem to recall that it will evaporate off as well.

I read someplace that many red wines have a trace of acetic acid in addition to the alcohol in them.

Actually, I don't think I'll bother extracting the lotus.  I was thinking of making a red wine infusion instead.  How many grams of flowers do you suppose would go in a bottle of wine, enough so that a single glass of wine would be potent in itself?

As I recall, about 3 to 7g of blue lotus/blue lily per serving is said to have been a fair amount.
I've heard that they just let the herb steep in the wine for a week or so.

[DrYRHead]

It seems there is a type of Lotus causing a controversy in Michigan.   

Info sources; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071014/ap_on_fe_st/odd_flower_battle  and  http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=NELU

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American lotus patch feeds Mich. dispute
Sun Oct 14, 5:38 PM ET
 


GROSSE ILE, Mich. - A rapidly spreading patch of flowering American lotus is causing an ugly battle.
 
Across the Detroit River's Gibraltar Bay on Hickory Island, Sue Liphardt said she doesn't like the sight of the aquatic plants. She and others fear the patch will grow to interfere with fishing and boating, driving down property values.

"It's like an island moving closer to our dock," she said. "I don't want them to wait until it's 50 feet away to decide how to control it."

But to Bruce Jones, a founder and board member of the Grosse Ile Nature Conservancy, the plants are lovely — and a sign the water near Grosse Ile, south of Detroit, is cleaner.

The American lotus is threatened in Michigan, and there is a fine as high as $500 for picking it, according to the state Department of Natural Resources.

The fight between the nature conservancy and Hickory Island homeowners has escalated in the past year.

The lotus bed was spotted in 1999, when it consisted of a few plants, Jones said. But some homeowners say it's now nearly 10 acres and claim they saw people in boats planting seeds to expand it in 2002.

Only natural beds are protected by law. The nature conservancy planted lotus seeds in other parts of the bay in 2002, Jones said, but those seeds didn't take root.

The bed "is not our fault," he said. "It's nature."

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PLANTS Profile
Nelumbo lutea Willd.
American lotus


Robert H. Mohlenbrock. USDA NRCS. 1995. Northeast wetland flora: Field office guide to plant species. Northeast National Technical Center, Chester. Courtesy of USDA NRCS Wetland Science Institute.

 
       
Symbol:   NELU   
Group:   Dicot   
Family:   Nelumbonaceae   
Duration:   Perennial   
Growth Habit:   Forb/herb   
U.S. Nativity:   Native   
 
 

[farmerjack]

The warm bath treatment evaporated some of the alcohol off and the taste is better. But, now there is settlement and I'm not sure if I should filter it out.

I tried a dropperful and it only made me sleepy, but I slept like a baby. It didn't do anything for my libido like the tea did either.

I thought by making a tincture that it would be more concentrated and have stronger effects. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe, I should try 2 dropperfuls. Any suggestions?

Peekaboo I suggest you get over to my house right away with your tincture and I'll show you how I reduce the alcohol from a moring glory extraction. the crappy taste of grain alcohol never goes away, gets more intense actually, but the burning sensation of the alcohol is gone and the morning glories do give up their secrets. After all the science is done we could examine that libido issue...

[Papyrifera]

So I tried out a water extraction of blue lotus with some other herbs to create a smokeable (or possibly edible) resin product.

In a pot was combined:
20 grams Nymphaea caerulea crushed whole flowers
10 grams Calea zacatechichi crushed leaves and stems
5 grams Mitragyna speciosa (kratom) leaf, deveined and powdered

This plant material was gently simmered for maybe 30 minutes and the dark coffee-brown liquid decanted.

In a separate container 20 grams of shredded Mimosa hostilis bark had been soaking in water with some vinegar added, for several weeks. The light purple transparent liquid was decanted and used to do a second simmering (about an hour) of the lotus, calea, kratom mixture. Filtering out all the plant material left a murky brown liquid.

Filtered and combined the two liquid extracts were simmered to evaporate the water, slowly over a couple hours. When almost all the water was evaporated and no smell of vinegar evident, a small amount of baking soda was added to liberate the alkaloids in a more smokeable form.

The final product was a brown/black sticky gooey tar to which a little powdered kratom leaf was mixed in to form a workable consistency (like very soft gummy hash).

Smoking a pea-sized ball is enough for a good effect. It's not quite as relaxing as expected though, the kratom and mimosa seem to add some mild stimulation. The mixture unfortunately puffs up and turns hard/burns very slowly when smoked (caramelizing sugars I think) so oral ingestion might be the way to go with this stuff. In which case adding the mimosa was pointless 

[DrYRHead]

One dreamed about an SD leaf + Sacred Lotus stamen combo, and it seemed to have a possible synergy to it. However, with the SD + Blue lily combo there only seemed to be an additional effect.
 

[Papyrifera]

So I tried out a water extraction of blue lotus with some other herbs to create a smokeable (or possibly edible) resin product.

Eating 3 to 5 of the pea-sized resin balls provides a 12 hour mellow high with trippy dreams and a pronounced analgesic effect. It's such a good painkiller I've been giving them to my friend who dislocated her shoulder.

I've also been drinking a herbal tea to treat cough and cold. Ingredients are:
A handful of blue lotus (Nymphaea caerulea) petals and stamens, shredded for relaxing and analgesic properties
One level teaspoon kratom herb, powdered and deveined for analgesic, antitussive and decongestant properties
Some white sage (Salvia apiana) for analgesic and expectorant properties
Some yerba mate because I like it 
One level teaspoon siberian ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus) for immunostimulant properties
One level teaspoon maca flour (Lepidium meyenii) for immunostimulant properties

Anyway, drinking this tea in small amounts over the course of the day reduced the number and severity of coughing episodes by about half. DrY has pointed out that blue lotus, kratom and thujone-bearing sages all have a strong synergy with each other. I would agree with this, as the medicinal effects and general feeling of wellbeing from this combination are stronger than would be expected from taking any one of the ingredients. The only problem with the tea is that it tends to keep me awake, as everything in it but the blue lotus has some stimulant properties.

[Narkissos]

So I've got a 50g bag of nelumbo nucifera to play with, any suggestions?

I'm thinking seriously of getting a bottle of my dad's apricot wine and letting some petals steep. I know that he includes acetic acid in the fixins, though I'm not sure the concentration.

I would also very much like to combine and concentrate mugwort, the nelumbo, damiana, and passionflower into a smokable somehow (my favorite combination)...or maybe a tincture that could be droppered onto a bowl...

[psilocyborg]

Lotus steeped in wine is okay but I think the alcohol overpowers the lotus.  Maybe I didn't make mine strong enough, though.  I drank three glasses of lotus wine one night and got fairly buzzed, but I didn't feel anything extra until the wine buzz wore off.  Then it was pretty sweet, but I much prefer lotus on it's own.  It's too subtle a plant otherwise.

You might try making some really potent lotus tea for your next trip, though.  You won't notice it much here either, but it will give you a background of calm and acceptance.  Very transparent, but immensely powerful.

[Narkissos]

Very transparent, but immensely powerful.

The subconscious itself, embodied in a plant.

[DrYRHead]

Lotus steeped in wine is okay but I think the alcohol overpowers the lotus.  Maybe I didn't make mine strong enough, though.  I drank three glasses of lotus wine one night and got fairly buzzed, but I didn't feel anything extra until the wine buzz wore off.  Then it was pretty sweet, but I much prefer lotus on it's own.  It's too subtle a plant otherwise.

You might try making some really potent lotus tea for your next trip, though.  You won't notice it much here either, but it will give you a background of calm and acceptance.  Very transparent, but immensely powerful.

This makes one think about how well a tincture of such would be. In such case the alcohol could dissolve the alkaloids with out over powering the effects of them, for the alcohol level would be at the such dosage per dose of blue lily extract.

[inhhalentropy]

Great Scott just imbibed about .5g of white lotus 25x powder mixed with a shot of whisky.  So far so good, captain.

[earthling]

Theory: "If you use enough Lotus/Lily you won't get drunk"

I have had very little experiments with Lotus by now, but one thing seems to be interessting to mention here:
whenever I drank 'Lotus in alcohol' (I always used 8-10gr of Lotus and something like 20-25cl ! 40%alc !) I was very suprised that I didn't get drunk!!! (I'm not a regular drinker). Whithout the Lotus in most cases I would have been sleeping or puking (and in all cases beeing drunk). I remember the last time: something like 4 or 5 hours after the Lotus in Alcohol ingestion I drank one (!) Bottle of beer and had to stop me mess arount (we were talking seriously before)

-sorry for my little english - I don't mind if someone correct my posts

[DayLight]

here's a bit of my experiences with the extract.

ive yet to have any real good experiences with the flowers, my bag of nelumbo stamens all ended up becoming bedding for dimitri.

anyway, my favorite method to consume lotus is as follows;

i will roll a cigarette with 2 pinches 20x lotus extract, 1 large pinch kanna. that is smoked, followed by a small bowl of pot.

now there is some fucking synergy!!!! its like being stoned with just a slight touch of an MDMA like feel. add some kava for extreme pain relief. more psychedelic than pot alone. floaty, swimming in warmpth and euphoria. not to make it sound like junk or anything, its not that euphoric and floaty, but it is a mighty fine stone.

i imagine cutting out the bowl of pot and instead adding some hash to the cigarette would be very nice.

an improvement on this combo to achieve a godly nod;

1.5g 40% kava extract + 5g corydalis root + 1g 54% kratom extract
wait for all that to come on, about an hour
then smoke .3g salvia nemorosa, a cig with 2 pinches 20x lotus, and a bowl of pot. cut out the kanna.

kanna+kratom=weird and not all that fun

kava supresses liver enzymes and potentates opiates! any botanical mixture aiming to achieve analgesic effect or an opiate like high should not be without kava! 

[Papyrifera]

ive yet to have any real good experiences with the flowers, my bag of nelumbo stamens all ended up becoming bedding for dimitri.

Well, thats a fine and dandy use for lotus IMO  The lotus is a little subtle, you might not notice it through the tryptamine mindcannon 

1.5g 40% kava extract + 5g corydalis root + 1g 54% kratom extract
wait for all that to come on, about an hour
then smoke .3g salvia nemorosa, a cig with 2 pinches 20x lotus, and a bowl of pot. cut out the kanna.

kanna+kratom=weird and not all that fun

That sounds like a nice blend, though I don't have most of the ingredients. I imagine it's like all the best parts of alcohol and tranquilizers without most of the negative effects.

I don't put kanna in any of my smoking blends, because I find kanna + many things = weird and not all that fun. One time a couple hours after smoking some kanna I smoked a joint with a touch of opium while drinking one beer (I had a tolerance to both at the time). I started getting crazy hot and dizzy flashes, I had to ask my friend to use his parent's bedroom to just lie sprawled out, shirt off, damp towels on forehead in a terrifying spinning stupor. I didnt know what was wrong with me, but figured the kanna might have interacted badly with something.

[DayLight]

i would stay away from mixing kanna with downers unless you understand it might get weird and a bit unpleasant but you just want to test it out, or if you have good info it is a good mix. lotus is fine to mix with kanna, and actually the two have a very powerful synergy together. usually i smoke a cig with tobaccy, kanna, and lotus extract, then when im done i smoke a bowl, and im usually pretty ripped before i even get to the pot.

it is also okay with salvia nemorosa, though ive only done it once. nothing as strange as kratom mixed with kanna.

as for the lotus + DMT, there were no effects from the lotus nor did i try to get them. there is a little interesting story ive gotta tell here though. what i would do was put a small bed of lotus down, burn the top by taking a small hit, just enough to blacken the top of the lotus, placed the DMT on, and fired away. all of the leftover lotus(i vaped the dmt off the top, leaving most of the lotus intact) from the tons of times i did this was placed in a kleenex box. after a spice trip, i wanted to go outside and have a cig, but wanted a little extra psychedelica while smoking it, so i packed a hit of my leftover burnt DMT/lotus and took a big rip, expecting only a bit of extra patterns and whatnot.

i had to sit back down. was really strong. so for all of you who use the sandwich method for deemsters; SAVE THE HERB YOU PUT IT ON!!!! a few good hits of a material like this will send you really far out.

[DayLight]

and the blend i described with the kava, corydalis, kratom, etc., is more of an opiate feel rather than pure downer.

it is sleepier than say, oxy/hydrocodone, but i would not call it a tranquilizing mix(though this goal is accomplished), but rather a euphoric painkilling mix.


analgesia is your friend

[DrYRHead]

One had found kava and kratom to mix well, but that was, indeed, for the opioid like effect to be enhanced/synergized. Kratom is a variable kind of substance. Mixed it with a stimulant like ephedra, betel nut, yohimbe bark,  and/or a caffeine source, and it become an upper with a speed-ball like quality. When Kratom was mixed with sedative herbs like kava, blue lotus, sacred lotus, skullcap, wild dagga and/or motherwort, it did become very opium like.

[Papyrifera]

This just in: Lotus is effective when chewed and held in the mouth 

Not sure why I hadn't tried this before. A friend suffering from an abcessed tooth chewed a little for the pain and within minutes was talking about how he would "zone out" when not paying attention. Some mild analgesia also, apparently. So I figured I'd give a try... indeed, just a half flower chewed and held between cheek and jaw was sufficient. Taste was pleasant. The effects came on faster and perhaps more apparent than making lotus tea.

[DrYRHead]

Humm, perhaps, a lotus + kratom quid would make for a nice dream

[Papyrifera]

1001 uses for lotus, here is one more:

A friend was suffering from a yeast infection, and felt called to using blue lotus (nymphaea caerulea) and calendula blossoms to make a poultice, bound with silk. Apparently this helped relieve the itchiness. I know that calendula has antimicrobial properties which should help with a yeast infection, not sure if the lotus itself is also antimicrobial.

[Papyrifera]

SWIM made a nice twist on gin: Into about 400 mL of Bombay Sapphire was added a generous handful of crushed, shredded blue lotus (Nymphaea caerulea) petals, as well as two bags of coca tea. This was allowed to steep at room temperature in a dark location for two weeks, before the plant material was strained out. The liquor had taken on a pleasant pale yellow colour. Suprisingly, it actually tasted BETTER than before! Not often soaking plants in liquor makes the liquor taste better, but it seemed the lotus had added a sweet overtone. One does not normally drink straight gin over icecubes, but damn was it good 

A few too many doobies  and one was really, really wrecked. Tingly feelings all up and down the body, seeing some patternings with eyes closed, and falling into deep reveries. Yummy stuff.

[DrYRHead]

1001 uses for lotus, here is one more:

A friend was suffering from a yeast infection, and felt called to using blue lotus (nymphaea caerulea) and calendula blossoms to make a poultice, bound with silk. Apparently this helped relieve the itchiness. I know that calendula has antimicrobial properties which should help with a yeast infection, not sure if the lotus itself is also antimicrobial.

Tea Tree has anti-fungal properties. A pinch of that could go well in a poultice too.

[trylobeet]

im gonna ask again - anyone ever tried growing this, indoors?
im about to plant some seeds tomorrow..
just wondering if i can get any first-hand info & tips from you guys.

[Papyrifera]

The seeds are known for their high germination rate, so getting them started should be easy. Water temperature needs to be kept at 18 celcius or more, otherwise the plant suffers. It is a tropical water lily. They like as much sun or artificial light as you can give them. I've never grown from seed, but obtained a couple hybrid purple-blue water lilies (a cross with N. caerulea). Water depth of 6 to 18 inches is best, depending on the size of the plant, more water depth as they get bigger. Anyway, no success on my end. Water was too cold, growing season too short. They survived, but did not produce flowers after I got them. Aquatic plant soils have almost no nutrients, but one can get water plant fertilizer tablets (solid for slow release of nutrients) at garden centres.

Keep us posted 

[psilocyborg]

SWIM made a nice twist on gin: Into about 400 mL of Bombay Sapphire was added a generous handful of crushed, shredded blue lotus (Nymphaea caerulea) petals, as well as two bags of coca tea.

YES.    Interested in trying a lotus/coca combo, myself.

Anyways, just wanted to pop in and briefly report on a recent LSD/lotus combo trip.  The acid was really really clean.  Felt like juicy diamonds.  Blotter art was kickass: print of Hofmann's bust with a backdrop of the swiss alps, and all these galaxies and stars in the night sky.  The interesting thing about this trip was that the acid was so seamless integrated with my consciousness.  Like, instead of being a drug that was done to me, it felt more like a natural function of my mind.  Smoking the lotus paste was great because the LSD and lotus remained distinct, yet inseparate.  I could pull a toke off the lotus, and feel it completely and fully on top of the acid.  Both were felt wholly, neither interfered with the other and yet there was a great amiability between each.  Very groovy.

[mirrorman]

currently brewing a lotus and sage mead.  almost 1/2 oz nelumbo and a few grams of white sage.  wanna see about that thujone synergy. 

any ideas if thats enough sage?

should be ready in a week.  i'll report back if anyone gives a shit.

[mirrorman]

Eureka!
i'm gonna say VERY successful.
i've been on a bit of a mead brewing bender as of late with a special emphasis on psychoactive blends.

a certain type of glow or tickle.  1/2 gallon split 4 or so ways.

everyone's descriptions of effects make a lot more sense now.

 

[Papyrifera]

Sounds good