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 The Lycaeum Forums » Psychedelics & Non Visionary Related » Visionary Plants (Moderators: Papyrifera, Noman)Topic:
 Nymphaea vs. Nelumbo; Exploring the Sacred Lotus

[DrYRHead]

Another e-letter from that 100Kg Guinea pig Jimmy.
 
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The other Blue Lotus: Nelumbo nucifera
 
One evening another cup of an odd tea came unto me. This brew was made using a tea ball filled with some of the dried flower, about 3.5g, of the east Asian sacred lotus (Nelumbo nucifera). Like the blue lily of the Nile, it has, also, been called the Blue Lotus. After the tea ball had steeped in a cup of hot water for about a half an hour, I started to sip it down. The color of the tea was yellow, and the taste reminded me of pond, marsh or swamp water. Yes, I do know what such stagnant waters taste like, for I had fallen into, and swam, in such places in my youth before.
 
A while after the cup of nasty tasting tea was finished, there was a vague watery feeling that came over  me. However, that sensation was very short lived, and after about 15 minutes it was gone. This tea seemed too weak to visit again. Perhaps, an incense could be much more interesting, though. 
 
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A Nelumbo nucifera Incense 
 
Another  day, and another incense stick came my way. This one had within its paper skin a half gram of the flowers of Nelumbo nucifera, or the sacred blue lotus of the east. Upon being lit, the stick did remind one in taste of a stale commercial grade tobacco cigarette.
However, the effect that came over me was of a glazed over sedative type. Thus the smoke of such was much more noteworthy than that of the tea from the same. Even at 1/7 the dose the the smoke was, indeed, more intense.
 
A half an hour later I still felt relaxed and sedated. However, at the same time I was a bit aroused, as well. The glazed over feeling continued on for about five hours in all. The idea of mixing this herb with other things did occur to one at the time. However, that is a story for another time.
 
 

[peekaboomagoo]

After straining the 3 tbsp of stamens from the 9 tbsp of alcohol, I added 6 tbsp of distilled water. The mixture still has too much alcohol since I use 190 proof. Can I leave the lid off the jar and let some of the alcohol evaporate off? Or, does it even work that way? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[peekaboomagoo]

Here's a picture of how it looks after the water was added.



The jar is one of those really small mayo jars, probably a pint.

[ST1R]

The mixture still has too much alcohol since I use 190 proof. Can I leave the lid off the jar and let some of the alcohol evaporate off? Or, does it even work that way? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

You could place the jar in a hot (not boiling) water bath, make sure the lid is off, to evaporate some of the liquor. Conversely you could just add more water to make it more palatable.

[Papyrifera]

Mix with fruit juice, tastes good 

[DrYRHead]

I bet orange or mango juice could go well in it. 

[peekaboomagoo]

The reason I wanted to evaporate some of the alcohol off is because I'm not much on alcohol. Right now, the fumes from the alcohol will knock one down.  hehe   I would like it to keep its potency; something more along the lines of a tincture. Any suggestions?

[Papyrifera]

I like ST1R's suggestion of evaporating some of the alcohol using a double-boiler type system. Keep the temp as low as possible, to prevent degradation of the plant chemicals.

[peekaboomagoo]

Ok, I'll give a warm bath treatment a try and get back with you.

[peekaboomagoo]

The warm bath treatment evaporated some of the alcohol off and the taste is better. But, now there is settlement and I'm not sure if I should filter it out.

I tried a dropperful and it only made me sleepy, but I slept like a baby. It didn't do anything for my libido like the tea did either.

I thought by making a tincture that it would be more concentrated and have stronger effects. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe, I should try 2 dropperfuls. Any suggestions?

[Papyrifera]

But, now there is settlement and I'm not sure if I should filter it out.

I'd leave it in, if it was dissolved in the original solution it could be alkaloids or some such. I've found higher doses of lotus often are not that more intense than low doses, they just last longer.

[DrYRHead]

Some times good stuff will precipitate out. For example, that is what happens with SD tinctures that have Salvinorin A from >2g/ml in them. It comes out of solution. That is why shaking is required with the stronger SD tinctures.

[ST1R]

Some times good stuff will precipitate out. For example, that is what happens with SD tinctures that have Salvinorin A from >2g/ml in them. It comes out of solution. That is why shaking is required with the stronger SD tinctures.

Dead on!
The residue is active oils that precipitate out after some of the etoh evaporated.
Keep it all! I you do wish to remove it, place it back into seperate alcoholic containment.

If you leave it in the mix; Shake throughly before measurement is done for oral dosing as it will no longer be a perfect ratio.
To say it another way, expect some natural variance in potency from the same amount of liquid, as the amount of active oils will change due to its inconstancy.

[Papyrifera]

Blue Lotus faux-absinthe:

In 250 mL of 40% alcohol (Canadian blended whiskey) was steeped for >30 days:
7 grams finely ground Nymphaea caerulea
2 grams finely ground Artemisia absinthium

The wormwood was organically grown and only young tips (not stem material) used to prevent bitterness of the final alcohol. Two grams of this finely ground wormwood looked visually similar to the pile of ground lotus, despite the weight difference.

One ounce of the resulting reddish coloured liquor is enough to experience both the lucidity of the wormwood and later the relaxed sedation of the lotus. The taste is bitter but not unpleasantly so, it's actually better tasting than some real absinthe (eg Hills  ) that I've tried.

One thing though, the 40% alcohol content was not high enough to do the whole flaming sugar cube thing, it would flame briefly but refuse to stay lit.

[go_ask_alice00]

Lotus sounds like some good stuff from what I've heard here..

[DrYRHead]

Yes, an opiate like glow with out the lethargy. 

[Papyrifera]

Yes, an opiate like glow with out the lethargy. 

Not to mention, no addiction, no withdrawal symptoms and only a mild buildup of tolerance with frequent use 

I've been experimenting with this "Three lotus paste" made once a year by Buddhist monks... I must say this extract works very very well. I like to add a little bit to the top of a bowl of pot. It makes me extremely relaxed and I fall asleep quickly and easily when I go to bed (unusual for an insomniac like me). There is also an effect on the "energies" felt in the body - I feel more power and flow to the chi within me. It's a little bit like when mushrooms or a 2C-compound is kicking in, that feeling of higher energy and vibration within you. Meditation seems to come very naturally after smoking a bowl with the lotus paste, very easy to sit calmly, quietly, and not be distracted by my racing thoughts.

Two thumbs up 

[DrYRHead]

Yes, and it synergizes well with other herbs too.

[go_ask_alice00]

Lotus works great for when you just want to lay back and relax. Its effects are like a mild cannabis buzz with a little hint of opium. Very little tolerance, no withdrawl and the effects are to mild for any kind of hangover to occur. Mixes excellent with some quality greens or other opiates.

I like it. I tried drinking 10 grams in tea and it put me in a sleeping pill like state, similer to a low dose of diphenhydramine.

Unfortunantly its still a little mild when it comes to smoking the stuff (by the way, doesn't seem to bad on the lungs...). I really want to try some White Lotus.

[DrYRHead]

Just say that BL may have synergized well with Kratom, wild dagga, skullcap, catnip and that other Sacred Lotus. Which also may have mixed well with those other things. I've come to the conclusion that these watter lilies/lotus may well be the golden ring to an addiction free opiate-like analgesic that they have been searching for the last 2 centuries. 

However, on the other hand I have to wonder; do the big pharm-chem companies really want a non-addictive(physically addictive) pain reliever with an effect similar to morphine? I'm thinking that the huge profits they rake in from oxy/vici addicts may have corrupted them too much. 

[2a]

I can indeed testify that nelumbo is certainly more psychoactive than nymphaea, as well as tastes better.  I remember the first time I tried it after I had purchased nymphaea more than once, and I was supremely pleased with the taste and more potent than expected high.  I smoked a bowl of it right before I went to class, and i remember walking all dopey down the hallway with very vivid colors and my vision seemed "lazy".  It was a great foggy, euphoric buzz that reminded me of getting stoned in jr. high.

but one of the most interesting stories I've heard about it was a couple of guys who smoked a bowl after drinking ayahuasca.  They had just finished the DMT portion and were smoking some pot, and then decided to repack the bowl with some nice, chill lotus.  As soon as each had taken a hit, they say that the aya took them off their feet by storm.  No sooner did each of them exhale that the trip went from a slight come up to laying flat on the floor for the next forty-five minutes watching the dancing organic-techno lights skitzing in rhythm to that fiendish (yet highly colorful) Super Mario music.  They said that never before had even a major Herb hit propelled them as far in a trip as that one lotus hit.  The experiment has yet to be repeated.

[DrYRHead]

White Rabbit, That last story, lotus + Aya +MJ,  sounded like there may well have been an interesting synergy going on there. 

[DrYRHead]

 It seems that the Chinese make some interesting dishes out of the Nelumbo nucifera seeds.  Here is a link about such. http://www.itmonline.org/arts/lotus.htm Has anyone here ever tried any of those dishes, and did they cause any euphoria? They sound tasty, anyway.  Talk about lotus eater. 

[DrYRHead]

This recipe looks of interest. However, that is a lot of lotus seed here. Hum, perhaps it could be dumbed down a bit.  A dream of a desert, anyway. 

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Cream Lotus Seed Soup

8 ounces lotus seeds
8 ounce can of crushed pineapple
4 tablespoons cornstarch
1/2 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup of sugar
8 maraschino cherries

Soak the lotus seeds in water overnight; combine drained lotus seeds and 3 cups water and bring to boil over medium heat for 15 minutes; remove from heat and drain. Smash the cooked lotus seeds in a blender and pour the resulting paste into a big bowl. Dissolve the cornstarch in four tablespoons of water, pour into a small cup and set aside. Bring 6 cups of water to a boil over medium heat in a non-stick pot, then add the sugar, salt, pineapple, and lotus paste. Return to a boil and mix in the cornstarch liquid. Stir constantly until smooth and thickened. Reduce the heat and simmer for one minute. Remove from heat, pour into a large bowl, place pieces of the cherries on the top and serve hot. Makes 6 servings.



Info source: Same as above;  http://www.itmonline.org/arts/lotus.htm

[psilocyborg]

I'll go ahead and chime in here.  I for one have been using the Tibetan three-lotus paste on its lonesome, and have found it VERY enjoyable.  I gave up on the good weed all but entirely a while back (save for those occasional evenings when I'm too drunk or what have you to decline a joint that gets passed my way), and ever since, I've wished for some sort of substitute.  Well, I think I've finally found it.

I've discovered this is an outdoorsy experience.  Being indoors definitely dampens the full effect.  This beautiful Autumn weather is perfect.  It really does remind me of pot the way colors get so flippin bright and ... colorful.  And the way the sun feels on your face when you close your eyes... heaven, man.  It takes me back to those days when I could blaze a bowl and actually enjoy myself.

My method has been to pack a small but goodly amount of this paste into a sort of crude looking bong thing I made when I was still a stoner.  It's a very effective bong made out of a small tupperware container plus all those little parts that come with head shop bongs.  I tried filtering through water, as the smoke can be kinda of hot and airy, but this seemed to diminish the effects so I switched back to dry.  Ill generally take between 3 to 5 successive hits, holding each one in as long as possible.

Effects are felt fairly instantly and linger for quite a while.  It's a very dopey feeling.  Somewhere between pot and opium, but it's its own beast, really.  Slightly psychedelic at higher doses.  I tend to smile a lot on this substance.  More suitable for solo explorations, I find.  In social situations, I felt vaguely self-conscious about my altered state, much like I would with marijuana.  Words felt thick in my head as I tried to put them together into sentences, and often I would just give up or not bother at all.  That's probably just me, though, being the kind of person who 'would honestly just rather not talk to you, no offense.'

I can't wait to try synergizing this with something profoundly psychedelic.  I'm thinking a lowish-dose of LSD may work well.  Mushrooms are not out of the question, but they can be a little sedating and cloudy in their own right.  I'd love to give it a whirl with MDMA, or better yet a candy flip, though the latter may be too intense to reveal the subtle beauty of the lotus trip.

This cat is definitely planning on getting more paste, plus he also plans on trying out Papy's smoke blend mentioned over in the Tobacco Substitute thread (sans salvia and psychotria).

[Papyrifera]

Nice description psilo 

I can't wait to try synergizing this with something profoundly psychedelic.  I'm thinking a lowish-dose of LSD may work well.  Mushrooms are not out of the question, but they can be a little sedating and cloudy in their own right.  I'd love to give it a whirl with MDMA, or better yet a candy flip, though the latter may be too intense to reveal the subtle beauty of the lotus trip.

I think that drinking lotus tea before taking mushrooms or acid can take the anxious edge off, one stays a little calmer and is more relaxed than would be otherwise. That said, if you ever get nausea on psychedelics lotus tea can make this worse (only a strong lotus tea seems to cause this). Smoking lotus when experiencing an episode of paranoia/anxiety on a trip often turns the experience around, seems better suited for this than Cannabis IMO. It's nice to smoke the extract towards the end of a trip, especially if there is an annoying residual stimulation and you really just want to relax and eventually drift off into sleep. If I am coming down hard it smoothes everything out nicely. Smoking at the beginning of a trip can sometimes kick a psychedelic in as with ganja. SWIM smoked lotus while candyflipping and as you suspected it was difficult to feel the effects of the lotus. Does seem to go very well with MDMA on its own, though 

[DrYRHead]

In the past one dreamed of a mix of SD and blue lily of the mile/Blue lotus. It seemed to have added something to the trip, but it did not really synergize like smoking kratom + SD did in some dream. One may have been wondering what Sacred Lotus stamens would go with smoked SD. It seemed to have added an aspect to a quided dream about such a mix.

[psilocyborg]

since having received an ounce each of nelumbo, calea and tagetes, experimentation has continued.  I made a blend of one part each (with maybe a slight favor towards the lotus), and have tried smoking this in a big joint that was shared between three people.  It tasted kinda gross, like smoking something that's not supposed to be smoked, sort of a indescribable pillowy taste.  The smoke itself had a likewise pillowy texture and was pretty smooth up until the roach was reached, whereupon it became thoroughly hot and burny.  Effects were mild, though definitely present for myself.  The others in the party were unsure as pot and oxycodone had been imbibed earlier in the day.  They soon sampled some lotus paste, however, and immediately reported positive effects.

Later in the evening, I made a tea from the blend with nearly boiling water (that point at which tiny bubbles form at the bottom of the pan).  I wrapped the herbs in a couple coffee filters, as no other options were available, then let it steep in a coffee cup for maybe 10 minutes.  The resulting infusion was WAAAAYYY bitter.  Like, crushed-Xanax-smeared-all-up-in-your-mouth-and-between-you-teeth bitter.  I don't know if I steeped it for too long or the water was too hot and scorched the leaves/petals or what... but it was damn foul.  I added a touch of honey, careful not to make it sickeningly sweet, and this balanced the flavors slightly, but it was still a struggle to get down.  The last gulp was the worst, as it had cooled completely by then and what's more sediment had settled to the bottom...

This morning, I made an infusion of just lotus petals.  The water used was not quite as hot as before, though I let it steep for about as long.  Even so, the infusion was very mild in taste, almost like a green tea.  Not unpleasant.  Hence, I don't think the lotus was the culprit behind the bitterness of the previous evening's tea.  I'm now wondering which was, the calea or the tagetes?  My hunch tells me calea, as tagetes has a history of culinary uses as a substitute for tarragon.  I will find out soon, as I have plans to explore the calea as has been traditionally used by natives: a tea sipped slowly, then a joint smoked before bed.

I also smoked a nice fat joint of crushed lotus petals this morning.  Smoke/taste was similar as before, though slightly less unpleasant without the calea and tagetes.  Effects were noticeable, though not as present as the nth-fold more potent lotus paste.

I'm now wondering if there's someway to extract the goodies from these plants, as they do not make a for very pleasant smoke, despite my hopes.  I wonder if a butane extraction (a la honey oil) would be effective?  Perhaps instead a large scale infusion could be brewed, then boiled slowly to reduce water content, and eventually left to dry completely...

do you guys have any further tips, for brewing or otherwise?

[Papyrifera]

The resulting infusion was WAAAAYYY bitter.  Like, crushed-Xanax-smeared-all-up-in-your-mouth-and-between-you-teeth bitter.
[...]
I'm now wondering if there's someway to extract the goodies from these plants, as they do not make a for very pleasant smoke, despite my hopes.  I wonder if a butane extraction (a la honey oil) would be effective?  Perhaps instead a large scale infusion could be brewed, then boiled slowly to reduce water content, and eventually left to dry completely...

It was the Calea, this stuff is one of the most bitter herbs on God's green earth! That's why I don't do Calea tea anymore, nothing has the right to taste that bad unless it's going to make me trip balls  If you put too much Calea in the smoking mix it'll start tasting bad too I find.

The active ingredients of the Calea and the Tagetes are water soluble so a simple large-scale infusion evaporated to give a sticky resin should work fine. The active ingredients of lotus seem to be pulled out by water too (especially with a long infusion time), but you might have better luck adding a touch of alcohol to help extract the lotus alkaloids.

[psilocyborg]

What about an acid?  I seem to remember your reports using acetic acid (vinegar) to help dissolve mescaline from peruvian torch.  I also seem to recall that it will evaporate off as well.